People LUV their SUV

We have a 2005 Prius and a 2005 Ford Explorer, so I see both sides of the coin. At the time we bought the Explorer (mine) I was not working, and put only 2000 miles a year on the car. We have a 3rd row seat and do use it often to haul my kids *and their friends* to wherever we are going. My dh uses it to go to boy scout campouts - the Prius has trouble on mountain roads and as he discovered a month ago in Anza Borrego - gets stuck in desert sand. (Thankfully there were a ton of scouts to push it free)

But I'm working now and commuting and so gas prices for the Explorer are killing us. We are looking to get a Prius IF we can find one without a premium tagged on - otherwise, the payment will be more than the fuel savings and I will likely wind up getting something else. (Which will have me very, very bummed out...)

Either way, I will miss the Explorer. I really will. I won't miss the gas pump, of course, but other than that, I've really enjoyed it. So I see both sides here.

Dh had me looking at a Camry earlier today and I was just screaming inside - I'm too YOUNG to drive a Camry!!

 

To a great many, a motor vehicle is far more than a transportation appliance. As a "car guy", I am not prepared to condemn anyone for their choice in cars, but I hope our current situation with no bright light at the end of the tunnel causes people to rethink their transportation priorities.

Two years ago I sold my daily driver V-6 Ford Escape due to its 17MPG in my rush hour driving. I considered a Prius, but wasn't prepared to do that much rearranging of my automotive priorities, so I purchased an Escape Hybrid, a reasonable compromise I thought at the time. Now I am ready and I have a deposit down for an 08-09 Magnetic Gray Touring Package 6. I still have my premium unleaded sports car I can drive on Fridays just to remember. That last statement should really cause people to think. I am watching Top Gear on BBC as I type this wondering what that show will be like in several years. If all we have are transportation appliances, it won't be much.

I wonder how many here criticizing people for their car choices have ATVs, jet skies, power boats and the like? Also, how many use gas mowers or weed eaters instead of caring for their yards with manual or electric tools? Is taking the family on a flight for a vacation any "better" use of fuel than driving a Ferrari? What about NASCAR, off-roading or leaving your thermostat at 72 instead of 78? While I am certain many of you have curtailed your gasoline use in other areas of your life other than car choice, I suspect many "waste" it other areas of their lives. Is that any more acceptable just because it is less visible?

People are having a reality check about the current situation. Many simply can't afford to take a beating on their current vehicle to get on a 4 month wait list for a Prius. These people aren't the enemy, they are your friends, neighbors and co-workers. Buying a large SUV 3 or 4 years ago is no worse than someone purchasing a pleasure boat or an RV. Do we prohibit RV sales because no one other than John Madden really needs one? Should pleasure driving be restricted? At some point you have to draw the line.

 

While PC has grown and incoporated a wider range of drivers and motivations, you will find that most on here practice what they preach as it were and have made a number of lifestyle changes. Just try searching around some of the FHOP at some of the threads about what else people have done to limit their environmental impact. I can't think of any thread titles off the top of my head, but they are usually something like What else do you do to be green, etc.

People who paid for a large SUV 3-4 years ago aren't bad people, but a lot certainly showed poor judgment by choosing a vehicle larger than they needed. For the most part, you don't find many on here touting the buying of a lot of toys like you mentioned without regard to one's impact.

 

He said half a tank, he can only get a full tank after negotiating with the bank manager.

 

Sounds like what happened in Easter Island when the last tree was felled.

 

I would tone that down just a little bit further:

"...aren't bad people, but a lot certainly showed poor 4 YEAR GAS PRICE PREDICTION ABILITY AND ARE NOW DRIVING a vehicle larger than they ARE COMFORTABLE PAYING CURRENT GAS PRICES FOR".

Really. Even recently, I didn't give much thought to gas costs in a sports car getting 18-19 MPG. I don't think I was or am a "bad person". This car was 14 years old, in good shape, and fully depreciated. So $1200 a year for repairs and maintenance, plus gas, were my only real running costs. I economized which results in saving resources. I drove the car gently.

Now the sports car is gone, the Prius is here and it's wonderful. I relax and watch the traffic, and can't help but feel a LITTLE smug. I think about all that energy heating brakes instead of regenerating. I feel sorry for the drivers of big gas hogs.

But, but, many of them would probably be surprised if they knew what I was thinking. Many are just oblivious, as I was 2 months ago, IMO.


And yeah, I'm about ready to join that "Peak Oil Cult" and get my "doom-stead" ready for the coming mega-collapse.... (As a fan of science and philosophy, I can't discount any possibility.)

 

I won't criticize anyone for their lifestyle choices. But in our household we use the 80-20 rule of thumb when deciding on whether to buy or rent something. If it's something we use 80% of the times, we prefer to buy it (e.g. efficient commuter car.) If it's something we need only 20% of the times, we prefer to rent it (e.g. boats, vans, etc.)

Been working out pretty good for us so far.

 

I had just one personal experience with the SUV craze. In '91, kind of when it was just getting started, I got caught up in it and bought a new Toyota 4-Runner. It was comparatively expensive, had a V-6 and guzzled gas, but despite that it was somewhat underpowered. It also didn't have that much hauling capacity, would seat 5 but in somewhat cramped condition, and the remaining cargo-capacity was pretty limited. And despite its off-road capabilities, because of the expense I was loathe to take it down some nasty fire-road, let alone go mud-bogging! It wasn't a station-wagon, it wasn't a truck, and it wasn't a car, although it tried hard to be all three.....and failed. I'm sure that many of the newer larger SUVs have better characteristics, at least relative to cargo and passenger hauling, and better power if you're willing to shell out the green at the pump. But I kept the 4-Runner for just one year before trading it for a Previa mini-van, which turned out to be a phenomenal and practical vehicle.....got decent mileage, had reasonable power, and would haul a lot of people/stuff. I've never cared for SUVs since, and have never owned one since.

And where it comes to fashion, I'm just messed up enough to want whatever it is that people consider uncool.....which would mean that I might now want an SUV! But I still don't. What is fashionable changes constantly, what is cool today is not tomorrow. Anyone who makes a major purchase based largely on fashion considerations is, IMHO, an idiot, and that described me back in '91.

 

I prefer not to tone it down, since to me, it wasn't just about gas prices, it is about emissions and reducing overall resources. So buying a large vehicle just because you can with cheap oil is still a bad decision for the long term by ignoring one's impact on the environment.

I did really like your use of oblivious, because I think that's how many people were/still are. I know a lot of people who mean well, but their impact/effect on the environment is not even on their radar. This is especially poignant in many churches across the country as environmental stewardship is a foreign concept to many congregations. It wasn't until I took an Environment and Society course in 2002 that I really begin to think about it, until then, I was pretty oblivious too.

 

sure. They love 'em all right. It's conditional love. After gas prices fly past $10/gallon, as it is in several parts of the world ... we'll see how much they REALLY love 'em.

 

Except that in the Fall of 2003 people went nuts when gas in the U.S. went over $2/gallon (yes TWO DOLLARS!) for the first time. Charges of price gouging. Calls for windfall profits taxes on the oil companies. Cries that $2/gallon gas would break the economy. Never before in my 25 years of living in Vermont did I have to go inside and prepay then go back for my change if I was using cash - people were filling and driving off.

And what happened? Big shift in habits? Big shift to more fuel efficient vehicles? Nope. Get the V6, not the 4 cylinder, it's only a couple of MPG worse so who cares? If they considered that the V6 increases their fuel consumption 10% they might care at some point. People kept buying big trucks and SUVs. To some extent because the Big 3 convinced them through advertising that "You will die on the road if you don't have a big vehicle". OK, not those EXACT words, but that was the message. Even 6 months ago GM had a radio ad with a woman saying "I care about the environment, but my family's safety is important to me". What does that say? "You will die on the road if you don't have a big (gas guzzling, high profit margin) vehicle (which is pretty much the only thing we make money on so you NEED one)".

There is, and probably always will be, the "macho" image problem. The feeling that if a vehicle won't cut it on a NASCAR track, it isn't worth owning, even though it will never be driven anywhere, in any conditions, that you couldn't easily do in a Honda Fit. Of course, some of that is also marketing. "Shown on closed road with professional driver". Or the opposite - BIG (outside) and BAD - the Hummer. And how many Jeep owners have managed to get their vehicle on top of an isolated Mesa in Utah? People don't want to face the fact that we pretty much have hum-drum lives and will not be driving anywhere other than paved or graded (plowed if necessary) roads. Anything over 75 MPH is speeding in every state in this country. We commute from here to there. Not EXCITING and well, we want to THINK (or have other people think) we are more exciting than that. The vehicle frequently isn't representative of our actual needs, but what we want to project as our image.

You don't need an SUV (large or small) or a truck to get 4x8 sheet goods home from the lumberyard. There are roof racks for pretty much any car. And you can't get 4x8 goods inside any SUV shy of the biggest (Suburban, etc) anyway.

Do SOME people need big vehicles? Sure, the guy hauling 3 riding mowers around the city supporting his lawn care business needs to be able to pull the weight. Maybe you have 5 kids. Won't fit the family in an Aveo or a Prius.

Do you need an SUV to take your 2 kids to their events? Nope, how do you think people got around before there were SUVs?? Put a cargo carrier on your fuel efficient 5 passenger car if you need a little more space. Take it off for trips down the Interstate if you don't need the space, it will unnecessarily drop your MPG. You'll use half the fuel of the SUV and still get where you need to go with the things you need.

Learn to pack smarter. A few soft bags will fit in a much smaller space than a single hard sided case with equivalent total volume. Buy a car, like the Prius, that is very flexible inside, not one in which you can not fully flatten the front and rear seats. The only thing I have purchased in the last 4 years that I couldn't get home in my car was a 4' x 3' greenhouse window. Not the sort of thing one buys frequently! I design our theater props such that they can be easily broken down to fit in almost any car.

If you don't regularly need to carry more than a smaller fuel efficient vehicle will comfortably hold, don't buy something bigger for "when Mom visits". Take both of your fuel efficient cars on those occasions. Why burn twice as much fuel 95% of the time the vehicle is on the road just to cover the other 5%. Tell the kids "Yes, we can go to the movies with your 4 friends, but one of their parents will have to bring some of them". There is a limit to how many people you can take on board even if you have a school bus.

The problem, as I see it, is people don't want to make the effort to think about how they can do things differently. They want someone ELSE to make their current habits affordable again, with no impact to them. Until 'macho' means leaving your kids a planet capable of sustaining a decent lifestyle instead of "how fast can I get to 60 MPH", "Does this car say 'I have money'?" or "If it ain't big and bad, I'm a wimp", fuel efficiency will play second fiddle in vehicle decision making.