People overestimate mileage

I agree. I think people also overestimate how fast they drive. Generally around the suburbs here you're going 40-45 miles an hour, with an occasional period on a freeway at 60-70, but you forget about the lights, the 20 mph zones in residential and shopping areas, the brief slowdowns, the acceleration time. I just assume I go 30 mph average, and I'm usually pretty close to that.

So if you think you're going 50 mph average, and something is 25 minutes away, then you would think it must be about 20 miles, but really it's probably only 12 miles because you're not really averaging 50 mph. (Now your case is a little more extreme, I can't rationalize that )

 

I have been keeping track of my local trips since signing up for the PHV. Your Right 90% are 10 miles or less.
Since I do most of my driving locally and on weekends take longer trips 75 + Miles I figure it would be perfect for me.

 

My tank average is very often 34mph. That's with most of my miles being between 45 and 55 mph. Slow sections and grocery trips hit the average.

I have had a 47mph tank, but most of that was one trip that was mostly Interstate.

 

On my previous car i left the trip meter running across tanks, and i had 34mph average after 35,000 miles.

PHV would get me to work every day. once the chargers are installed it'll get me home too. i want one!! (or a leaf, or a Roadster, anything EVy really, if anyone cares to donate...)

 

The unstated information matters a lot.

Perfect is:
- charging solely off-peak
- not having any alternative, more efficient modes of transportation available for the short journeys
- driving close to but not over the EV range on most days
- only driving out of EV mode when you make longer trips
- being able to charge while out on your longer weekend trips
- your longer trips not being too long so that they make EV a very low proportion of your total miles.

 

I think you are right.

But I think the "psychology" of automobile ownership not only includes overestimating total number of miles driven in a day...but most people also just aren't realistic about the majority of use's they apply to their automobile.

How many people buy huge SUV's with the mental imagery of weekly deep woods camping trips and/or canyon drives?

Buy sports cars with the imagery of big open winding expanses of roads, free to be driven at high speed?

But except for the occasional diversion what IS the reality for most of us? Work and Shopping...(produce and consume). And usually? That's short trips of less than 20 miles.

But most people don't buy the vehicle for the reality, they buy it for the dream. Therefore when you tell them of a 100 mile range...or in Plug in Prius's case, a 13 mile EV range...they don't think about the probable fact that for a large majority of their useage that would be perfect. They think about driving to the coast for the weekend...or up into the mountains.

I think we will see movement on both ends. I speculate, that for those that can afford it, the future will see specialized vehicles bought and used for specialized tasks.

I also think we will see improvement across the board. With EV ranges extended and Hybrids, Plug In's and full EV's simply becoming more versatile.

Also I think among much of the young, you are seeing a change in the psychology itself. More youth today I think, appreciate efficiency. It's not that they don't like long drives, speed or camping trips...but it's also that they like the idea of saving fuel and being efficient.

 

In 11 days, the 2nd year of daily-driving data collecting will be complete.

This is data from the 1st. Note how much variety there is from day to day...





The colors indicate cold & warm season as well as highlighting 25 & 35 mile distance thresholds.
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Sure - I'll buy your Gen 3 Enginer equiped Prius for £12k

 

Why the 25 and 35 mile thresholds? Why not the 14 miles distance threshold? This way, we can visualize the volume of miles (from the graphs) that can be covered by plugin electricity.

 

I'm guessing the 35 miles is for the Volt and he knocks it down to 25 miles in the winter.

He should add a 13 mile line for the warm months and a 9 mile line for the winter months for the PHV.

Looks like John's usage is actually really close to mine, particularly if you added another 50% to those ranges for charging at work. I get about 60 miles of usable EV range a day that would more than meet his needs more than 90% of the time from the looks of it.

 

Claims by Volt enthusiasts were overly generalized and had no data to actually back them up. Remember the wild "230 MPG" promotion effort? I started this documenting the very next day. My collecting the of real-world driving detail clearly shows far more variation than they didn't account for in any spreadsheet. Life is not that repetitive... thankfully.
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That's not realistic, since the PHV will offer an EV button to delay depletion. We can take advantage of the engine on winter-starts without a plug opportunities, stuck in heavy winter traffic too. And of course, the PHV is a "best of both worlds" hybrid. Sometimes you'll just want the super-boost from the pack rather than pure EV. All that adds a whole new level of complexity to the calculations.

There are a number of other graphs available anyway. One doesn't have any thresholds. Two standardize for both 12,000 and 15,000 miles annually.
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I travel a total of 35 mls to work every day. Mostly is highway but speed is restricted. The average speed for a tank is about 34.7 mph. So one now thinks that a PHV will do its work for each way to the parking (park&ride outside city and then by train to the working place). But honestly, I have no chance to get the desired speed on the highway or when the roads are not completely flat with that tiny 36hp eMotor. Even after 500 m from my home I have to climb a small hill. I switched to EV mode and I could manage it with about 20 mph (it's a 50 mph zone). Anything faster switched the ICE on even with a full battery.

Therefore any data records cannot compared to others as the distance is only one variable. Cold weather is another one but speed as well as climb rate are totally forgotten. These parameters are the cause of my low mpgs in daily driving. Compared to the other cars it's still great as they also consume a lot of fuel when going uphill in the morning (07 RAV4 2.2l Diesel 36.2 mpg, 09 Caddy CTS-4 V6 18.8 mpg).

With this topographical influence the PHV will probably not result in any better mileage than a standard Prius. It is just too low on power in electric only mode Or am I wrong ?

 

Are you testing PHV or is this normal Prius with EV button? In a normal Prius the el. motor is 50kw (80hp), but the battery pack can give out only 26 kw (36hp). If the battery pack in PHV will be more powerful then you could have 80hp on electric only. So does anyone know the battery output of production PHV Prius?

Why 50kw el. motor in a normal Prius if the battery is capable of only 26kw. Because of PSD, the power from ICE is split on the wheels and el. generator (MG1) and MG1 directly feeds MG2 with electricity. If you floor it the battery will add 26kw for total calculated output of 100kw. If PHV has more powerful battery it's potential can not be used for higher total output.

 

Thanks for the explanation. No I do not test a PHV and I was not aware that the el-Motor is able to produce 50kw. But it is still less than a Leaf (as an example).

 

i started tracking my driving since Thanksgiving Weekend 2003 when i ordered my first Prius. it was the 6½ years of data and 3 years of driving an NEV that told me that the Leaf would EASILY supply up to 75% of my 2 driver transportation needs (it would be 97% if we did not need to go opposite directions at the same time).

now, currently it supplies about 54% of my driving needs (her commute is 64 miles, mine is 13) but mostly because i refuse to give up driving the Leaf more than a once or twice a week.

Since the arrival of the Leaf, we have parked it ONE time for a family trip. today will be the 2nd time (we are going to Salem) now the funny part;

if we wanted to, we could take the Leaf. i would leave here. go to Burgerville in Centralia eat breakfast, top off at their charging station. continue to Portland. would just make it (about 75 miles) use the QC to boost it. then continue on to the area (meeting family for a walkaround day) for early afternoon dinner and window shopping (yes!! i am being dragged to this!)

then drive home using the same charging options going back.

 

It's actually 60kW and it most definitely is underutilized. The PHV can deliver a surprising amount more power than what the current EV button provides a taste of.

The climb up a steep residential hill in my neighborhood from a dead stop at the bottom to 40 mph was so impressive, few would believe I could accelerate up it at such a brisk rate... all using only electricity.

You'll be able to drive off from a suburb stoplight to 45 mph without any effort, all in EV. It's pretty sweet. My final morning with the PHV included a local run to McDonalds. The entire run was with a cold, motionless engine. Local errand running will be a dream come true with the PHV, far from the usual experience of just 50 MPG.
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Dave, I think its great the Leaf works for you, I hope to go all the way to BEV in my next car.

But I am curious, if you did follow the itinerary you are describing, how long would you need to charge at each of the locations?

 

To go from 37% to 77% - it took me only about 11 or 12 minutes using Mitsubishi's quick charger, just 5 miles from where I work in So Cal:

 

Thats cool, but are they available along the route he was describing?

A 40% charge up in 11 minutes is like 40 miles or so right? And its my understanding the fast charging (level 3) only goes up to 80% max, is that right (and takes about 30 minutes from empty)?

Don't you need optional equipment to charge that fast?