Perfect module resealing tutorial, for the rehydrating process.

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Albert Barbuto, Jun 17, 2020.

  1. Albert Barbuto

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    The module rehydrating process is an amazing tool to keep older hybrid packs in a "like new" state. What is great about rehydrating, is that it can easily be performed right in the car itself. There is no need to remove the pack, and work on it in a designated work area. Doing the entire pack is not necessary. Concentrate on weaker, problematic modules. Leave the stronger modules alone.

    The process itself is rather easy, and quick to perform. The perfect, leak free resealing however, is where the process can go awry. I wish to share an easy, effective way to accomplish this.

    1) The resealing screws must be flat head. I chose to use 3mm. Purchased at Aubuchon Hardware.

    2) The hole drilled to accept the screw must be precise. By that I mean .010 smaller than the actual thread dimension. The 3mm screw measures .114 dia. A #37 drill is .104 dia.

    3) Drill above each cell.

    4) I chose to inject 3ml (3g) per cell. I have read where others have used much more.

    5) Screw the 3mm screw down, until the taper of the head almost makes contact with the module top. Now back the screw out, until just a couple of threads are holding it into position.

    6) Place the tip of the instant glue applicator right against the screw. Gently squeeze the glue tube, WHILE turning the screw down. You want all thread to have glue on it. Now turn the screw until the taper part of the head contacts the module top. You will feel the screw become much harder to rotate. Stop turning. The taper has sealed the cell. (highlighted area drawing) Make sure there is a small amount of glue puddled around the screw head. Congragulate youself for a job well done. The puddle around the screw head will dry overnight. The thread area cures almost instantly.

    7) Cycle the module. A single cycle may yield impressive results.
     

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  2. spdracrm3

    spdracrm3 Junior Member

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    What are you rehydrating the cells with?

    Do you have voltages on cells before and after as to what improvements you've actually seen by doing this?

    SM-G960U ?
     
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  3. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    The module rehydrating process is an amazing tool to keep older hybrid packs in a "like new" state

    I'm curious how this is determined...are you measuring a modules maximum capacity prior to and after rehydrating? What equipment are you using for testing this?

    What is great about rehydrating, is that it can easily be performed right in the car itself

    I suppose this eliminates 'prior to' and 'post' capacity testing of individual modules, so how are you determining "like new" state?

    Concentrate on weaker, problematic modules. Leave the stronger modules alone.

    Maybe you're determining this by using an app like Hybrid Assistant or something similar to find blocks that are weak when compared to the other blocks?

    What are you rehydrating with......? water, chemicals, chop a module open and use it's juices to fix several others?

    Give us the details. I can try to duplicate it on a work bench using some marginal modules from my 'NFG' box and document the results with actual capacity testing..Now I'm getting curious, so I suppose I'll have to chop up a module or two this weekend....
     
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  4. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Wear the appropriate PPE;).

    You don't want to get the electrolyte on you:eek:.

    Always curious for data gathered safely(y).
     
  5. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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  6. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    I may go totally gonzo on this. I remember reading some posts by @Britprius a couple years back where he experimented with adding chemicals to modules. At the time, it seemed like WAY to much work for me to pursue, even for the fun of it. Now I'm thinking that I could clamp 28 sketchy modules, get test data on all of them, and then leave them at full discharge. Blow a hole in the top, add just distilled water and then cycle them again a few times and see if there's a significant difference. If so, then build a battery and put it in my car for testing. I would never, ever sell it to anyone tho. Wayyyyy to sketchy to ever put in someone's car, but ok to play around with in mine.
     
  7. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Whoa, @fotomoto snuck one in there while I was typing, lol.
     
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  8. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Albert seems to be using 'module' and 'cell' with their proper meanings, so that would mean six drilled holes, six screws, and six glue blobs per module, right?
     
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  9. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Yeah, I think if I end up doing this, the first thing I'll do is some super-duper destructive testing of a bad module to get some exact measurements. Then have at it with a drill. Six individual holes per module is probably the best way.

    Wonder if I could put an "opened" module into my hydraulic press and squeeze juice out of it to add to the 'marginal' ones...a mini-car crusher type set-up....might be exciting if it's not fully discharged, lol....maybe I'll stick with distilled water, it sure sounds easier..and safer..
     
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  10. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    What, Bob's testing way back when wasn't destructive enough for you? :D

    [​IMG]

    Might not be necessary. As I understand it, the 'juice' isn't what leaves, just the water, in the form of H₂ and O₂ escaping the seals. Leaves behind dried-out juice concentrate, which becomes the juice again when you put the water back.
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    A few questions:

    1. The numbers without units are decimal inches? For example: "The 3mm screw measures .114 dia."

    2. By "actual thread diameter" you mean outside diameter, out-to-out of threads? I'd assume so, but just asking.

    3. The value .114 is then 3/25.4? I get .118, just doing the math. Appreciate that's a very quibbling difference. Also, it's kinda moot: whatever the screw diameter measures, you're saying undersize the hole by .01" (somewhere between 1/64" and 1/128". Or to keep it all metric, very close to 0.25 mm.

    4. Did you consider using two-part expoxy? Or Super-Glue is effective, less complicated? The Super-Glue doesn't start to lock the screw in the last screwing in process?

    5. I'd second the "what" are you adding, assuming distilled water?
     
    #11 Mendel Leisk, Jun 17, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
  12. Albert Barbuto

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    This post was intended to address the tricky step of leak free module resealing only. A big thank you to "fotomoto", as the two links he posted are superb. The second link is the first one I ever came across. My jaw dropped at how amazing, and "hard core" this was. I had to try it! So I purchased a good capacity spare module off eBay, and went to work. I measured before and after capacity, and voltage drop after a timed draw. Hydrating works...



    Answers to questions:

    I am using distilled water. It works, is easily available, and is not a problem if spilled. Chemicals may work better??? Not sure, as I have not tried any .

    Threads: Yes, .25mm is very close to .010"

    Charger used: Integy Indi 16 x 7 v6 (See pic)

    To tell if the modules actually improve after rehydrating, two tests are performed:

    (1) Overall capacity mah. (5 amp draw to 5.5v)

    (2) Load test. (30 amp draw until 1100mah has been removed. Record voltage quickly at test end.)



    I can work on a module, or several, right in the car, after I am done using the car for the day. All that is required is this:

    The modules of the entire pack are right around 8.02v after I park the car. I can do whatever I want to a single module, or several, as long as this final step MUST be done. The module I have been working on must be fully charged. Then I set the charger at 30amp discharge. Now I discharge until exactly 1100mah has been removed from the module. The resting voltage will be .10v higher than the entire pack of individual modules, but only for a couple days, until the surface charge dissipates.

    You can see from the data how close all the modules are doing this. (below) It closely resembles what a new pack would measure. Also take note of my backing up a hill using Torque Pro. The 54 amp load is very uniform across the 14 pair of modules. Remember that this pack is 15 years old. (All modules are 15XG 10/2005) If while backing up the hill a block is .10v less that its peers, I do the 30amp load test to see if one module is weaker than the other. If so, then I cycle that module. I take it all the way to zero volts, in one step, GENTLY, as follows:



    (1) Discharge to 5.5v (5 amp draw) Now change discharge settings to 1.5 amp, and continue.

    (2) Discharge to 5.5v (1.5 amp draw) Now change discharge settings to 700 ma, and continue.

    (3) Discharge to 5.0v (700ma draw) Now change to light bulb, and continue.

    (4) Discharge to 0.0v (12v light bulb, measures 280ma draw @ 8v )

    Why I am using a light bulb, instead of the discharger, as the module gets closer to zero volts, the bulb draw keeps dropping and dropping, until there is no measurable load on the module at zero volts. This is super gentle on the module, and effective.


    The biggest question I have after doing all of this is: How long is this pack going to stay "like new"?
    Going to have to wait and see. I can say that fotomoto's first link, the OP stated he put 20k miles on the pack, and all was well. Good news indeed....




    1) 8.04 H ( H = rehydrate) All 28 modules 15XG 10/2005

    2) 8.01 H

    3) 8.02 H

    4) 7.98 H

    5) 8.00

    6) 8.03

    7) 8.03

    8) 8.03

    9) 8.02

    10) 8.02 H

    11) 8.00 H

    12) 8.02 H

    13) 8.01 H

    14) 8.01 H

    15) 8.02 H

    16) 8.00 H

    17) 8.01 H

    18) 8.04

    19) 8.07 H

    20) 8.01 H

    21) 8.01 H

    22) 8.01

    23) 8.01

    24) 8.01

    25) 8.00

    26) 8.00

    27) 8.02 H

    28) 8.02 H
     

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    #12 Albert Barbuto, Jun 17, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
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  13. ozmatt

    ozmatt Active Member

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    I just have to try this again, I didn't waste quite enough of my life on it last time :)

    Have a couple 4000mah modules in the last pack that I tested, will try with those!

    My only question is which glue will work best, I previously found no glues worked that well for pp, holt melt sticks and 2 part epoxy nearly worked but still not that great!

    More work on the glue and this could even become a thing to do!

    :)

    Matt

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  14. alftoy

    alftoy Member

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    Step 6, Albert mentioned exactly how he sealed the screw against the PP. Maybe try his way instead of reinventing the wheel.
     
  15. 05PreeUs

    05PreeUs Senior Member

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    Just wait 'til the "rebuilders" get drilled modules back as cores... OMG! :LOL:
     
  16. ozmatt

    ozmatt Active Member

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    Was just saying superglue was the least effective of all the glues that I tried last time I done this, maybe it comes down to what sort of superglue or the way it's applicated, I will give this way a try nothing to lose!

    Very interested to find out if the koh wicks it's way back through to the surface after a few months
    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  17. alftoy

    alftoy Member

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    Mentioned this in the other thread:

    Goes without saying to clean around the drilled hole before resealing with the screw. Also cleaning with isopropyl alcohol will also slightly soften the PP, gives the super glue some tooth to grab better.
     
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