PiP versus the Prius Prime - a True Story

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by inferno, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    Let me tell you...short story.

    Originally wanted a Plug-In Prius back in 2012. I was very interested in it, but the money didn't make sense. It was $30 for the base version and yes there was around $2,500 tax credit but no state credit.

    Flash forward to 2014. Income levels change, needed a second car, Volt didn't make sense because it wasn't as spacious and we valued our 2010 Prius and the fuel economy. So I went searching for a gray PiP, there were a few used ones here and there which seemed to be the better deal, but they kept getting sold.

    I finally found a great price on a 28k silver one (which I thought "whatever") for around $17,000. I go to the dealership in Boston and it turned out that they misadvertised. It wasn't a PiP, they meant that price for a brand new Prius C. Anyway, we met in the middle and I was sure to walk away, ended paying $18,000 for it not included taxes.

    We reach the now...Incentives, PiP aging, Prime only seats 4...found a gray model, pricing point worked out (would save me money on my commute)...and it was the gray model! We decided to invest in a Pacifica Hybrid 7 seater van (so why would we want to back the Prime?) Silver PiP traded in for $10,250 and ended up lowering the payments for the Prime than compared to the PiP + it was cheaper to drive.

    I'll throw my review in for the Prime later, but I did love the PiP...And finally a true plugin EV. With incentives in MA, incentives in tax credit, the generous trade-in, the Prime has been a joy to drive and I finally got my gray metallic Plugin Prius :)

    Now to start the purpose of the thread...

    My first fill up on the Prime (January 6th, 2017):
    • 102.4 mpg, actual: 94.9
    • 69% EV (calculated different from the PiP mind you, in the PiP EV represented that mode only).
    • 916.1 miles.
    • 9.648 gallons filled
    • 15 days 'til first-fill-up

    First fill-up on the PiP (November 29th, 2014):
    • 56.77 mpg calculated
    • 22.71% EV Mode ratio (not the same as the above).
    • 528.2 miles
    • 9.304 gallons filled
    • 9 days 'til first fill-up

    So it was sad to fillup on my Prime, but wow what a difference in the length of time to fill-up. The temperature was also different. It's colder now. I also have a worse commute (~100 miles round trip every day with sometimes charging on both sides).

    I said in a review once that it wasn't worth upgrading a Gen 3 Plugin to a Gen 4 (and it was even hard considering upgrading from a Gen 3 standard). Can I recommend upgrading the PiP to the Prime? Only if you don't mind a smaller trunk space (it looks to be 80-90% of the PiP trunk space, and longer) and 4 seater.

    FYI - I have all values calculated out so anyone can ask away! Compared to a brand new 17k 32 mpg average car the PiP put me ahead $10k after sold. For a used $10k 32 mpg car, only $2.7k ahead. But how are they comparable? I wasn't considering a seat-warmer and plugin functionality. And I didn't consider how much money the 32 mpg car would've sold far. For the used one, probably $3k. And FYI I put over 40k miles on the PiP since it was bought.

    No compared to a Gen 3 Prius (which I also track stats on) I only saved $683.78 in the car's lifetime (selling price not withstanding).

    I encourage all HV/EV/Plugin owners to join in on the chat on the forums. It's great to hear from everyone! I'm looking to bring a healthy discussion regarding the Pacifica Hybrid whenever that comes in.

    Anyone look at the Highlander 2017 Hybrid? Wth is with the back row, the seats are only a few inches off the ground....
     
  2. Samprocat

    Samprocat Active Member

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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    missed this post inferno, great excavating samprocat!(y)
     
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  4. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    2nd Tank Comparison ( - :~( SECOND TANK!!)

    Prime (January 19th, 2017)

    • 100.6 mpg, actual: 93.7
    • 69% EV
    • 963 miles.
    • 10.278 gallons filled
    • 13 days without fill

    PiP (December 6th, 2014)
    • 60 mpg
    • 18.4% EV (calculated differently...)
    • 586 miles.
    • 9.747 gallons
    • 7 days without fill
     
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  5. Samprocat

    Samprocat Active Member

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  6. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    How is the Pacifica working out?
     
  7. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    Good idea to record! I'll put that in my spreadsheet and update the post.

    Not working.......Ship date was estimated as today, ordered it like 4-5 weeks ago but now updates. It's been "ready to be built" for 4 weeks......Yikes, I wonder what's going on? Dragging their feet with the new administration or honest development issues/timing...?
     
  8. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    OK good luck I have the 2009 Routan version which has the same 7-seat interior config because VW was not allowed to use the stow-n-go seats. So I have a huge storage area where I guess your hybrid batt will be.
     
  9. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Can you elaborate on the difference in %EV calculation between the two?
     
  10. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    Prius Prime will calculate EV based on when the HV or EV mode...basically any time it says EV on the screen on propulsion. The PiP will actually calculate HV and EV miles based on the mode you're in, HV or EV mode. So large difference there. They're both accurate in their own right....But the numbers can't be directly compared because of that.
     
  11. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    This means that HV miles are calculated differently as well...does the Prime have HV only miles on any of the displays?
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    this is new with gen 4, where there is a display on the lift back, separating hv miles and ev miles.
     
  13. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Not seeing the difference between those two sentences.
     
  14. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    If I understand inferno correctly, unlike the PiP, with the Prime being in HV mode miles driven with ICE off and energy is drawn from the battery are counted as EV miles and only miles when ICE is on (and recharges the battery as needed) are counted as HV miles.
    No wonder why a display like the PiP's "EV ratio-HV ratio" cannot be found in the Prime...not allowing you to calculate HV only MPG...
     
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  15. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    With the PiP, when you are in HV mode, miles with ICE off are counted as HV miles, even if these miles are due to regeneration in downhill.
     
  16. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    So, for PIP it's mode, for Prime it's engine running status?
     
  17. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    With the PiP yes, with the Prime that what I understood from inferno.
     
  18. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    With the PiP, if you manually switch to HV mode while you still have EV miles, the car registers this point as a target point to keep (like saying - I want this amount to be saved for later use).
    Now, if later on you have a downhill section and anytime during this section you return to EV mode (if speed allows) and, at the bottom of the hill you return to HV, the new point is set as target point. If you do not switch to EV, staying in HV all the time, the regenerated miles will be 'used' helping the ICE until the original target point is reached.
    Gaming the system: record EV range! | PriusChat

    I wonder how the Prime behaves in this situation.
     
  19. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    How is the electricity from the outlet being accounted for in your fuel economy? Your formula is accurate as long as the car is never plugged in.
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if hv miles reported are only with the engine running, mpg at the pump must be something awful.
    i think pip reporting was more useful.
     
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