Featured Plug-in Better then all EV?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by lmans66, Jul 25, 2018.

  1. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    i guess - yea, a Bolt can't be your only car - if you don't even have a 120v outlet at home - to recover that <40mile average commute at the end of the day .... that'd be ~6hrs .... (or less than 3hrs if there's a 240v dryer plug available) for charging .... roughly ½ of the hours folks have to them self, once they get home & flip on the tube. But even if you forgot to plug for a day or more, that 200+ mile range will let you skip now & then..
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    #21 hill, Jul 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
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  2. Ashlem

    Ashlem Senior Member

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    The other issue too is GM's marketing team not knowing how to properly advertise their plug-in cars.

    Plug-in hybrid vs BEV is always an interesting topic, because there's no real right/wrong answer. Which one works for you is very subjective, and what works for one person may not be right for the next one.

    For me, I love my 2017 Chevy Volt, because I can do my 38-40 mile round trip commute entirely on electric (the distance depends on road construction my city is doing right now), even in winter with heater usage. But if I need to drive further, or I forget to plug in, then I can just run the gas engine instead, and "fast charge" at any of the thousands of gas stations scattered across the nation.

    So no, I'm not completely off gas. But I don't need to burn nearly as much as I used to. And if I decide to go on that road trip, I don't have to worry about extensive planning for charging stations; I can just drive it like any other gas car.

    Of course the Volt won't work for everyone. Some people need a bigger car, or more seats. Or they just don't trust GM's reliability, or still hold a grudge against them due to the EV-1 debacle (in which case I don't blame you entirely, but you should definitely see what they've been up to since).

    But that's why other hybrids, plug-in hybrids, and BEV's exist. And ultimately I see them all as on the same team, which is to get people to be less reliant on gas-only cars. But this is a marathon, so it'll take a while to bring prices down on plug-ins, build up public charging stations, and ease the public's concerns and inform them about plug-ins.
     
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  3. ny_rob

    ny_rob Senior Member

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    Worst I've ever gotten at 0F deg outdoors (for two days) was 150mi range.
    Snow didn't change that by much- you have to make sure you clear all the glass manually before setting off, because if you rely on the defroster to do the initial clearing you'll burn through a lot of EV miles. Nice thing w/the Bolt is you can pre-condition the cabin for 20min at a time for 2 sessions before starting the vehicle while on shore power- so you don't lose any range. Pre-heat to 80F, then get in to a toast cabin with 100% range left in the tank.

    Right now I'm getting 300mi range in the summer heat.... EV's love it hot!
     
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  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That had been overwhelmingly been proven false.

    Volt was designed for conquest and that market is now exhausted.
     
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  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    The good news is there are now a large variety of plug-ins, and battery prices are dropping. That means in 10 years there will be many times the current plug-ins in the US and China.

    Small ute aka crossover is a big market and is missing. There is no best for everyone for the op PHEV is best, for others BEV is best, but we have to remember that plain old ice vehicles will dominate in the near term.

    I wouldn't trust it. It would probably be fine, but low rolling resistance tires aren't great for snow days, things go wrong, batteries degrade.

    106 miles is a long commute. Tesla model 3 long range is probably the least expensive plug-in that I would trust on that years from now. 310 miles of range even if it gets killed by cold and snow would probably be fine. But the price is $36K + $9K long ragne battery + $5K premium package (required to get one this year) = $50K +ttl less incentives ($7500 federal tax credit + any local).
     
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  6. lmans66

    lmans66 Junior Member

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    This is my thinking as well..... I 'want' to go BEV but the tech just isn't there yet with range. So,....I leased my Prime for three years and will see how the battery tech evolves in that time span. If improved enough to make longer trips than 200 miles, I will opt for one but for now, the Prime is perfect. I am hoping I can just roll my lease into another Toyota for the Prime is all the quality I need
     
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    there must be a reason we don't have a bev crossover yet. new leaf? kia niro?
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    until about 5 minutes ago, I was in full agreement. Then I read up on this small UT (available in just 2 or 3 months) & see it has a 250 mile range! Just ½ the cost of the similar range big teslas - wirh active liquid thermal management!
    US-market 2019 Hyundai Kona Electric breaks cover in New York - Roadshow
    There are several positive Kona YouTube reviews going on. It's especially attractive since Tesla has used up their full $7,500 tax rebate. Thinking it may just give the model 3 a serious run for its money.

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  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    To drive long distances in an EV, you are also buying into a fast DC charger:
    • SuperCharger and CHAdeMO
    • CCS
    • Range Extender (built-in)
    The first step is to do a requirements analysis. So we have two, long distance travel requirements:
    [​IMG]
    • The "wrench" icons show planned, not built, fast DC chargers
    • Huntsville AL to Rogers AR: 557 mi
    [​IMG]
    • Little Rock AR to Rogers AR: 212 miles + Rogers AR to Tulsa OK: 119 miles
    • Little Rock AR to Tulsa OK: 274 miles
    The charging network changes over time but as of today:
    • long range Model 3 - using the SuperCharger and CHAdeMO network can complete the trip in less than a day.
    • other Teslas - add a 119 mi segment that with charging takes +3 hours.
    • all other EVs - no way of making the trip except by taking days using substantially slower L2 chargers.
    • Range Extender - no problem, just fill-up at any truck stop or gas station.
    It is easy to forget the unique competitive edge of the Tesla fast DC chargers. But when you consider any non-Teslas and even the Leaf, there is no way they could meet our requirements. Of course the range extender, plug-in hybrids go anywhere thanks to the extensive gasoline station network.

    Bob Wilson
     
  10. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Kona will only be available end of the year in california, when and if it gets to the rest of the country, who knows. They are already sold out in Norway for the year. I'll wait for pricing and availability to believe its better than the bolt ;-) I don't think an extra 16 miles would give me enough confidence long term without charging infrastructure, but its good there is anouther choice coming at least for carb states.

    Think how bad it is for those poor saps that leased fuel cell vehicles for range and now can't fill up. I hear toyota is paying for rent a cars for mirai leasees that run empty on hydrogen.
    Hydrogen fuel shortage in Socal is leaving Honda Clarity and Toyota Mirai owners stranded - Alt Car news
     
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  11. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    The small details.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    no doubt hunday will soon be building out a charging network in north america.
     
  13. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    It wouldn't surprise me if Hyundai helped built out the QC DC network, but then again, I was the sap that thought the Mitsu Outlander plug-in SUV would have been here around what, 3 yrs ago?
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  14. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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  16. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    if i may rewrite their title's sub header please;

    by lobbying hard core for taxpayer dollars in order to keep the little 4 seaters' huge expense under control - those tax dollars raped from government coffers already hard strapped for cash, because no way is Toyota Et Al going to pay for the trillion-dollar nationwide infrastructure - much less its maintenance. "
    Okay there. Now I don't feel so bad

    .
     
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  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i blame the pols. i wonder how it is going in japan? i suspect that we are paying for their hydrogen highway r&d.
     
  18. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    I like the discussion here. Good to see that people realize that BEV's and PHEV's are on the same team. Both are important. We currently have one of each. If I had to recommend a vehicle to the statistically average American right this very minute....would have to be a PHEV.
     
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  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Tesla technology has moved forward far enough that with the SuperCharger network, some Teslas can replace a plug-in. But there are 'EV deserts' lacking the density of fast DC chargers needed for cross country driving.

    VW's $2B fine is being paid in fast DC chargers is a start. But GM, FCA, and the other EV pretenders are not significantly adding to the fast DC charger grid. Worse, their dealers in North Alabama lock them up at night and weekends.

    There is one exception in the BEV market, the anti-Teslas. Easily spotted because they seldom if ever own a PHEV or BEV, they have 'Tesla derangement' syndrome. Starting the Elon and running through the whole company, let's just say their concept of facts and data is an alternate reality.

    Bob Wilson
     
  20. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    There's big money in shorting stocks - if you have the vocal huevos to keep it up long enough to make people believe the fodder. And then when the shorter's realize they've been found out, they have to make up another set of 'facts'. Lot of work - but it beats ditch-digging.
    .
     
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