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Plug-In Prius: real winter driving

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by john1701a, Nov 12, 2012.

  1. priuskitty

    priuskitty PIP FAN

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    Bisco was simply responding to your post which didn't have the complete story at the time you originally posted. here is what was originally posted:
    I agree on all points. What is actually happening with some people is that the PIP is a very tight car, so, on days where the temps are in the 40s a larger


     
  2. not my words, blame Bisco. I did say the car is tight, therefore no heat escapes, or little heat escapes. Don't look at the word heat in a defining way. Do you know that -50 temperature air has heat in it?
     
  3. priuskitty

    priuskitty PIP FAN

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    musta been a glitch in the post:cry:
     
  4. Yes, a temperature differential exist between the outside and the inside of the glass, hence condensation. The part about volume of moisture builds up, was a misquote.
     
  5. priuskitty

    priuskitty PIP FAN

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    bisco was probably guessing what you were trying to say, he guessed wrong
     
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  6. TRUE, probably.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    opposite.:cool:
     
  8. priuskitty

    priuskitty PIP FAN

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    like the "To do" list?:notworthy:
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it was worth a shot.:p
     
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  10. when in doubt, circumvent.
     
  11. Or: Circumloquote.
     
  12. priuskitty

    priuskitty PIP FAN

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    had to look that one up::confused:

    cir·cum·vent

    /ˌsərkəmˈvent/

    Verb
    1. Find a way around (an obstacle).
    2. Overcome (a difficulty), typically in a clever and surreptitious way.

    Synonyms
    deceive - cheat
     
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  13. stacey

    stacey ☆☆☆☆☆

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    If you were referring to my question about the frosty inside windshield, I do believe I mentioned that recirculate was not on and that I was only using the fan. Sorry if that was not clear. If your comment was to someone else, disregard that sentence. :)

    I have found that trying to defrost/defog the windshield using ONLY the fan is an exercise in futility. For my short commute, it's faster for me to give up and walk to work than it is to wait for the window to defog if my goal is to avoid turning on the ICE (which it is when driving to work). If I am going on a trip where I will need to use the ICE, I will not hesitate to press the defog button and turn on the ICE.

    So, a final update on my situation, (which at this point I don't think needs it's own thread), I left the windows down all day one day last week and walked to work. Then I ran all my errands over the weekend with the fan and A/C on to help dry the car out. Today was the first day since then that it has been cold enough to frost and even though it was a somewhat warm and wet week, I am pleased to say that there was only frost on the OUTSIDE today.

    Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I definitely learned something.
     
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  14. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    With all the feedback about moisture on the inside of the windshield due to some owners not wanting to run the engine for warm defrosting, today's opportunity was a real treat.

    I would drive to work with the heater running the entire time. The blower direction was set to window & foot, the fan on 2 bars, and the temperature set to "65". We got about 1.5 inches of new snow and the temperature was 25°F. That made for a messy morning commute on the along-the-river route. In other words, plenty of moisture.

    After driving the usual 3 blocks in EV to get out into traffic, I fired up the heater. Consequently, the engine started. It ran to warm-up completion (a coolant temp of 130°F) then shut off. EV automatically engaged and I drove that way for a few miles. When the coolant dropped to 96°F, the engine fired up again and then shut back off shortly afterward.

    Back in EV, the system was now entirely warmed. To my surprise, the coolant temperature dropped all the way to 87°F before the engine started again. That was great!

    My drive continued, moisture free the entire time. Upon arriving at the parking ramp, with the electricity all used up, the final distance tally was 17.3 miles and the average 120 MPG.

    Set it, then forget it. No need to mess with the heater. Just drive it.
     
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  15. Nice post John, as you probably know, you do not need heat to defrost, only airflow. Now that is even colder here, the ICE Starts anyway.
     
  16. lensovet

    lensovet former BP Brigade 207

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    andy, he had snow and 25 degree temps. pretty sure you do need heat at that point.
     
  17. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Heater Threshold

    I had noticed enough of a difference with coolant temperatures and heater threshold to want to research further. I hoped to detect a pattern. Could I uncover & confirm reactions to specific settings and reliably repeat those results? The answer is, yes!

    The catch to performing all that testing was to not allow the engine to heat up the coolant too much. That's what has been preventing us from noticing detail in the past. Everything really needed to be measured within a small window of time, not spread out over weeks like we've been doing.

    We already knew with the heater set at 65, the coolant temperature would drop well below 100 before starting the engine to warm it back up again. What I wanted to know what happened when it was set higher. Check this out:

    68 = 118
    72 = 118
    74 = 118
    76 = 123
    78 = 127

    The heater setting on the left corresponded to the coolant temperature on the right, several times at each level. I was even able to confirm results while driving and while stopped.

    In other words, if you set the heater at 74, the engine will remain off until the coolant temperature drops to 118. At 76, it's 123. At 78, it's 127. No longer is there a single cutoff point like the regular Prius. The plug-in model takes a tapered approach.
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    very very interesting!
     
  19. lensovet

    lensovet former BP Brigade 207

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    very
     
  20. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Outside Temperature

    It clearly is a parameter taken into account for the heater, beside the coolant threshold... which explains why observations have varied so much.

    My recent evidence of this was watching the engine shut off when the coolant temperature warmed up to 112°F with the heater set at 70. What the heck? That didn't fit in the pattern I had measured a few days earlier. The obvious difference was it now being a little above freezing outside, rather than well below.

    The next observation of not-fitting-the-pattern was when it got even colder outside. Not using the heater at all, the engine shut off and 105°F and I was able to drive for 4 miles in EV. In the past, initial warm-up was always to 130°F anytime the engine started. That didn't seem to matter. Maybe time is a parameter too.

    Yesterday, my cold morning errand running with heater had an engine shut-off at 123°F instead. That was yet another temperature. Hmm?

    Today, with it 12°F outside and the need to get to work shortly before noon, I set the heater at 70 and jumped on the 70 mph highway with a full battery and a cold engine. Upon reaching the 55 mph section, there was plenty of reserve heat built up for EV driving... or so I thought. When the coolant dropped to 136°F, the engine started back up. Huh?

    Of course, in the end, does it really matter? The point is to deliver a significant MPG boost from plugging in. That is indeed what I've been getting.

    The same advice we gave in the past applies now too... Just Drive It.
     
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