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Polar Ice for 2017

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    In celebration of the 2017 Solstice, time to start another polar ice watch:
    Arctic

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Northern Hemisphere Sea Ice Area

    Antarctica

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Southern Hemisphere Sea Ice Area

    In about 6-7 months, the Northeast passage will open for navigation. Then the Northwest passage for a couple of weeks. As for land based ice, still looking for current observations.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  2. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Antarctic 'velocity' map is nice but you ought to attribute it. Image info says from Science magazine so readers can sniff it out, but they should not need to.

    I keep thinking Antarctic sea ice will get back into 2 stdev envelope but not yet eh?

    Southern ocean whaling logs from earlier times are getting archived now (mentioned it elsewhere) and that may give century-scale perspective. For longer than that I have no idea what proxies might be useful.

    Pure speculation, something that deposits on sea bed would be different in years with or without surface ice. But what thing?

    ???

    Identify such a thing, take widely distributed sea bed cores, and 'back out' ice-extent paleohistory.
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Actually I had been looking for the big Larson C break but realized the existing sea ice would coral and mask it. Talk about a lot of nothing.

    Regardless, the nearly ice free Antarctic should have uncorked 3/4th of the sea terminating glaciers. It should have also given a strong bloom of photoplancton too.

    Later,
    Bob Wilson
     
  4. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Do you mean the Vernal Equinox? The solstices occur in June and December.

    Equinox - Wikipedia
     
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  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    And the edit clock ran out. Thanks, you are of course right or I was ~90 days off.

    Bob Wilfon
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    There may be satellite images showing the Larson C, big berg break:
    [​IMG]
    There is a bite out the Larson c ice shelf right where the reported breaking berg would be located. It appears to be pulled away showing open water.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    #7 fuzzy1, Mar 26, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
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  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    That turns out to be one of my major criticisms of the paper: Influence of the recent high-latitude atmospheric circulation | PriusChat

    By looking at just the summer melt season, the failure to freeze up as much in the winter is left unaddressed. Sad to say, their 'natural variation' was taken to mean man-made global warming plays no part ... in some lay press reports.

    Bob Wilson
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    As expected, the current, polar ice data is coming from non-USA sources: Arctic Sea Ice: Uni Bremen

    After a drop of almost 262 thousand km2 in just three days, it looks highly likely that the maximum for sea ice extent was reached two weeks ago, according to the data provided by JAXA, the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (via ADS-NiPR ; it used to be provided by IJIS).

    It's a new lowest maximum record, and the third time in a row that extent stayed below the 14 million km2 mark. The previous lowest max on record was reached in 2015 (13.942 million km2), almost beaten last year (13.959 million km2), but this year SIE went lower still and peaked at 13.878 million km2.


    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    No need to set one's hair on fire but it seems a major, Greenland glacier is showing some unusual cracking.

    Source: Scientists just found a strange and worrying crack in one of Greenland’s biggest glaciers - The Washington Post

    . . .
    Jeong and Howat were also struck by the Petermann images and conducted some additional analysis. They suggested that the new crack may be caused by the larger pre-existing one, which could be exerting additional stress across the shelf. They also suggested that floating sea ice at the front of Petermann glacier is likely keeping the cracks from widening further by holding the shelf in place — but noted that this bracing function will disappear as summer approaches and the sea ice dissipates.


    “I’d say that the rifting process is on hiatus right now, but it is very likely that the cracks will continue to grow in this summer,” said Jeong by email.

    Bob Wilson
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    This looks interesting: https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v544/n7650/full/nature22049.html

    Surface meltwater drains across ice sheets, forming melt ponds that can trigger ice-shelf collapse1, 2, acceleration of grounded ice flow and increased sea-level rise3, 4, 5. Numerical models of the Antarctic Ice Sheet that incorporate meltwater’s impact on ice shelves, but ignore the movement of water across the ice surface, predict a metre of global sea-level rise this century5 in response to atmospheric warming6. To understand the impact of water moving across the ice surface a broad quantification of surface meltwater and its drainage is needed. Yet, despite extensive research in Greenland7, 8, 9, 10 and observations of individual drainage systems in Antarctica10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, we have little understanding of Antarctic-wide surface hydrology or how it will evolve. Here we show widespread drainage of meltwater across the surface of the ice sheet through surface streams and ponds (hereafter ‘surface drainage’) as far south as 85° S and as high as 1,300 metres above sea level. Our findings are based on satellite imagery from 1973 onwards and aerial photography from 1947 onwards. Surface drainage has persisted for decades, transporting water up to 120 kilometres from grounded ice onto and across ice shelves, feeding vast melt ponds up to 80 kilometres long. Large-scale surface drainage could deliver water to areas of ice shelves vulnerable to collapse, as melt rates increase this century. While Antarctic surface melt ponds are relatively well documented on some ice shelves, we have discovered that ponds often form part of widespread, large-scale surface drainage systems. In a warming climate, enhanced surface drainage could accelerate future ice-mass loss from Antarctic, potentially via positive feedbacks between the extent of exposed rock, melting and thinning of the ice sheet.

    It is interesting because the well know loss of ice mass comes from calving of sea terminating glaciers. Yet there have been more than a few papers describing Greenland ice melt. So now we're seeing a paper describing not the quantity but how wide spread this is across Antarctica.

    Ok, so ice melts, obvious, true, but having laid down the mark documenting the phenomena in Antarctica, it will hopefully lead to more studies to quantify the effect.

    The press release: Water Is Streaming Across Antarctica | Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Massive summer melting on East Antarctica’s Amery Ice Shelf, seen from NASA’s Landsat 4 satellite. The image shows about 520 square miles. (NASA)

    Bob Wilson
     
    #13 bwilson4web, Apr 24, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  14. wxman

    wxman Active Member

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  15. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    It is, thank you.
    Is there any volume measurements dating back to then?
    How about other areas of the arctic, or data from 1921 or 1923, or better yet, even more years?

    Also, do they have any more actual data? They mention "as much as 15 [degrees]..." at one point. But they didn't give it a date, and no other mentions of actual measured data.

    The part about the fish was interesting.
     
  16. wxman

    wxman Active Member

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    Just happened to run across that article. That's all the data associated with that topic of which I'm aware.

    Edit: Looks like Real Climate addressed the article several years ago - Faking it « RealClimate
     
    #16 wxman, Apr 24, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I remember seeing a discussion about it before but don't remember the source. It is one of the reasons I prefer satellite data even though we are often finding calibration and processing to be non-trivial.

    Bob Wilson
     
  18. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Interesting, thank for the link to the discussion of the 1922 data.
    Good to see a more qualitative comparison.
     
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    One of the missing pieces is the connection between climate and weather. It looks like we're finding the 'smoking gun':


    Apparently there is a polar vortex, in effect a permanent jet stream that separates the Arctic air mass from the temperate masses. In the past, this polar vortex would have wave associated effects (i.e., there is no 'end' or 'start' but a constant flow.) This leads to a natural 'resonance' or frequency in this polar vortex. As this resonance/wave varies in time, it dips down to bring cold, dry air to the temperate areas only to be replaced in other northern areas by warm, moist air invading from the lower latitudes.

    As I understand it, these natural frequencies in the polar vortex are increasing in amplitude and sometimes changing frequencies. This can lead to more extensive and unexpected heat waves and cold, dry spells. The challenge is to understand how this 'heat engine' works. One side is the cold, polar radiator and the other, the increasing temperature and heat.

    On a personal note, I'm seeing heat in Alaska often means cold in Dixie. My thinking is if we can find current maps of the polar vortex (very possible in the satellite era), we can perhaps see longer range effects beyond 10 days.

    I'm probably using the wrong terms, this is not my area of expertise, so perhaps @wxman might do a 'sanity' check. No, this does not mean we have a direct link from climate to weather models but it looks to be a promising area of investigation.

    Bob Wilson
     
  20. wxman

    wxman Active Member

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    You pretty much capture the essence of the polar vortex, Bob. It typically is a circumpolar flow centered over the poles. Sometimes a "lobe" of the polar vortex breaks away from the main circumpolar flow.

    The one thing in that video that is inconsistent with my personal experience is that the upper air flow has become more amplified ("wavier") as a result of the warming Arctic. My experience is that the flow becomes less amplified (typically) in mid- to late-summer when the temperature gradient between the polar region and tropics is at a minimum (analogous to warming the Arctic regions relatively more than the tropics.) The most amplified flow typically occurs in transitional seasons - Spring/late Fall - when the temp gradient between the Arctic and tropics is at a maximum regardless of the polar amplification that's going on as a result of AGW. This is just a casual observation on my part; no rigorous study or anything.

    On my own personal note, I lived through (survived?) the infamous "Blizzard of '77" when I lived in Western New York (Blizzard of '77 - Wikipedia). I recall that a "lobe" of the polar vortex broke off and actually dipped as far south as southern Ontario. There was speculation at that time that the polar vortex was permanently expanding southward.
     
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