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Polar Ice for 2018

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Dec 21, 2017.

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  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Camp Summit Greenland had a heat wave, about -5C, this week.
    summit:status:weather

    Bob Wilson
     
    #61 bwilson4web, Jun 12, 2018
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0179-y

    The Antarctic Ice Sheet is an important indicator of climate change and driver of sea-level rise. Here we combine satellite observations of its changing volume, flow and gravitational attraction with modelling of its surface mass balance to show that it lost 2,720 ± 1,390 billion tonnes of ice between 1992 and 2017, which corresponds to an increase in mean sea level of 7.6 ± 3.9 millimetres (errors are one standard deviation). Over this period, ocean-driven melting has caused rates of ice loss from West Antarctica to increase from 53 ± 29 billion to 159 ± 26 billion tonnes per year; ice-shelf collapse has increased the rate of ice loss from the Antarctic Peninsula from 7 ± 13 billion to 33 ± 16 billion tonnes per year. We find large variations in and among model estimates of surface mass balance and glacial isostatic adjustment for East Antarctica, with its average rate of mass gain over the period 1992–2017 (5 ± 46 billion tonnes per year) being the least certain.​

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0179-y/figures/7
    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
    #62 bwilson4web, Jun 14, 2018
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    #63 bwilson4web, Jun 24, 2018
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    #64 bwilson4web, Jun 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    #65 tochatihu, Jul 19, 2018
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    There is bromine in seawater. It can better get out and find its way into (long) terrestrial ice cores when there is less sea ice. This niftyness has been exploited to construct a paleo-sea-ice-cover proxy record of interesting length:

    “120,000 year record of sea ice in the North Atlantic”
    Clim. Past Discuss., https://doi.org/10.5194/cp-2018-80

    Short quote: "Sea ice extent during the last 10 kyr (Holocene/MIS1) has been less than at any time in the last 120 kyr."

    Important to mention this technique (as currently developed) does not resolve better than ~1000 years. Does not inform discussion of most recent century. But I am irrationally enthusiastic about inductively coupled plasma spectroscopy whenever it is used near its limits.

    ICP is now routinely used for much 'easier' analyses. Get a $$$ grant, sent most of it to Agilent, Perkin-Elmer, or Shimadzu, and get a big box and month's training for your technical staff. Then, data shoots out, fast and easy. Going after 'ultra-trace' concentration differences is a game played at much higher level. Me like.
     
    #66 tochatihu, Aug 11, 2018
  7. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Considering that the bulk of this time period (before 10 kyr ago) was during an ice age, when greater sea ice coverage is expected, does this really tell us much? Is the time span long enough to reach back to the previous interglacial period?
    -------------------
    OK, I see a dating of the previous interglacial as 130kyr to 115 kyr ago. So the above time span covers about the last one-third of that interglacial. So while the application of a new tool to independently support (or dispute) previously reconstructed records is always positive, I don't see this finding as saying much about current AGW.

    I was somewhat aware of ICP going on in my area during a college-era summer job at a Hanford lab. But those were chemists, and I was an electrical guy, so the power amp and coils driving the plazma flame (I seem to remember Clarence stating 20,000 K, but am now seeing references to just half that), and the resulting need for UV protection, were of greater interest to me than whatever results the chemists were finding. If repeated today, I'd be interested in more of the actual results.

    Disclosure: those grant $$$ indirectly benefit me, as a continuing stockholder of my former employer (different business unit). Buy up!
     
    #67 fuzzy1, Aug 12, 2018
  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    "I don't see this finding as saying much about current AGW" Just so, and they won't until improving the time resolution.

    Obvious barrier to going back to earlier interglacials.

    Ice as a paleo proxy ultimately fails. We'd really like to see how things were during hotness 3 million years ago. But at that time there was very little ice.
     
    #68 tochatihu, Aug 12, 2018
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: cimr.eu | #CIMREU

    The area north of Greenland has long been home for the thickest sea ice in the Arctic Ocean (and thus on Earth). The changing climate and increasing melt in the Arctic are now changing that.

    During last week, winds pushed fragile sea-ice off Greeland's northernmost coast, and opened an area of ice-free ocean. An earlier such event had happened late February this year. Because they fragilize the thick sea-ice cover close to the coast, such events can have strong implications on the total Arctic sea-ice volume at the end of the melt season (september).
    . . .    ​

    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
    #69 bwilson4web, Aug 21, 2018
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Arctic ice is still there depending on winds and currents:
    Coast Guard rescues 2 passengers of sinking sailboat stranded on ice floe | CBC News

    The Canadian Coast Guard rescued two passengers of a sinking sailboat who were trapped on an ice floe in Arctic waters early Wednesday morning.

    Lauren Solski, director of communications for Fisheries and Oceans Canada, said in an email to CBC News that Iqaluit Marine Communications and Traffic Services reported to the Joint Rescue Co-ordination Centre (JRCC) in Trenton, Ont., that an 11-metre-long sailing vessel, Anahita, was sinking.

    The vessel's emergency beacon was activated and two passengers "were on an ice floe and equipped with water, food, warm clothes and a life raft."
    . . .    ​

    Bob Wilson
     
    #70 bwilson4web, Sep 3, 2018
  11. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    #71 iplug, Sep 3, 2018
    bwilson4web likes this.
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Thanks to winds, looks like the NorthWest passage is/was open.

    Arctic minimum probably this week and a curious dip in Antarctic sea ice.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #72 bwilson4web, Sep 14, 2018
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Looks like minimum Arctic sea ice yesterday. Antarctic sea ice looks to be a relative low for a maximum too.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #73 bwilson4web, Sep 22, 2018
  14. leps

    leps New Member

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    Hmm I never thought about it.
     
    #74 leps, Sep 22, 2018
  15. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    #75 tochatihu, Oct 25, 2018
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I appreciate the goal but have reservation. The old test question, “Define the universe and give three examples.”

    If an effort to prevent the Vandals from deleting or denying access, good. But I am afraid that trying to make a common set of data may drop unique metrics. For example sea microscopic planktons are a migration/climate metric. Looking at just a collection that does not include these is blinding to inquiries.

    I may have misunderstood their goals and certainly the article was light on methodology. Not casting stones but just my cautious nature.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #76 bwilson4web, Oct 25, 2018
  17. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    #77 tochatihu, Nov 7, 2018
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