Poll for users of the BT Plate

It looks to me that both sides of the discussion are defending their positions a little harshly. Prius users are experimental by nature-they bought a Prius. The comments and critisisms we listened to before and after buying were endless (and not always nice). We did it anyway.

I agree with those who want more data, but that type of testing would drive up the price. Those of you who have bought and TRIED one need to be patient with the unconvinced. Those who switch will know, those who don't, won't. It's kinda like being a Prius owner those who own know for sure. The rest is talk.

We are the test subjects, for now.

 

OK, I said I was going to bow out now... but... people... are... responding... must fight urge to type...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZenCruiser @ Aug 12 2006, 01:05 PM) [snapback]302227[/snapback]</div>

You're right, I should've chosen my words more carefully. I don't really want to argue, I agree with you... except the part about people experiencing an improvement. They've perceived an improvement. We all know human perception is a funny thing.

Darrell performed a single blind test on his wife here

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Aug 12 2006, 02:37 PM) [snapback]302259[/snapback]</div>

Sure, all the time. That's not my problem with this whole thing. You've read through those threads, you know what I'm talking about.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stan57 @ Aug 12 2006, 08:59 PM) [snapback]302421[/snapback]</div>

For the record, I don't have a position on the BT Plate. For all I know it does/doesn't do something/anything For the quality of the piece, I think the price is a bargain.

As for driving up the price, I'm not asking Brian to provide test results. To the best of my recollection, nobody is. I would however be interested in a little user testing, as opposed to testimonials. How do most people shop for tires? What's the point of Consumer Reports Magazine?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wilco @ Aug 13 2006, 12:25 PM) [snapback]302628[/snapback]</div>

Let me quote geologyrox from this thread:
It's a well known fact that people are affected by "confirmation bias" - where we look for data to support our current position, instead of searching for the truth. This means, among other things, that people tend to overweigh evidence that agrees with them, and ignore or underweigh evidence that conflicts with their opinions. Obviously, this tendency makes it difficult to find the truth - that's why we end up with 50% of the US believing that there were usable WMDs in Iraq, and people on both sides fight the evolution fight with a careful selection of quotes and articles that they've found on the internet. People want to be RIGHT, and more than that, they want their preconceived notions to be right.

I too would be guilty of the above, but at least I'm still asking for more data because I think the above applies instead of just accepting the status quo and "what he said" like they did in the Dark Ages.

Now I respect everybody that has experienced improvement but is still willing to keep an open-mind instead of resorting to personal attacks on dissenters.

 

I guess since I was the one that prompted this survey, I can put my vote in. My BT plate was installed today (with the help of BOBZ) and I'd like to report my first impressions.

I've been driving for 55 years and, currently crew on a NASCAR road racing team - Team Cobalt california (www.teamcobaltcalifornia.com). I've driven a lot of cars and put on a lot of mileage (on the cars and myself). I have to confess that when I first started driving my Prius I had a strange squirrely feeling that there was someone in the back of the car that was messing with the back wheels. This happened while going over bumps, railroad tracks, expansion strips, etc. There was also a similar uncomfortable feel that the rear wheels were weaving back and forth at high speeds with a cross wind.

After installing the BT plate today, BOBZ and I went to the monthly Long Island Prius group meeting at Dave and Busters in Farmingdale. I immediatly noticed something different. The guy in the back of the car had left! The tracking and general behavior of the car had become completely neutral. I was able to take my hands off the wheel at 55 MPH with hint of any kind of drifting.

Understand that most of this feeling is/was a seat-of-the-pants type of thing. But I would be willing to bet that an accelerometer in the back of the car could detect and quantify the difference.

In my estimation, the BT plate is most definitely a keeper!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wilco @ Aug 13 2006, 03:25 PM) [snapback]302628[/snapback]</div>

Now my turn. You're right, I should have chosen MY words more carefully And no argument with what you've said, either.
Perception is definitely the more accurate word.
But I believe (perceive) perception IS reality.
Now I think I'll go shave my head with a cheese grater to take my mind off this...

 

The poll would be considered anectodal information.

While it would be nice to have some blind tests set up with expensive equipment to make a nice chart, table or graph to prove whatever, I doubt Brian has the time or financial resources to set up such tests.

I find it hard to believe that a difference could be "in the heads" of so many people. Could so many people be imagining something? Maybe.

Someone on Priuschat actually came by and test drove my car with the plate. He drove his car without over some on and off ramps in a cloverleaf by my parents' house, then took my car and did the same. He said he felt a difference, but decided the plate was too expensive.

In lieu of scientific data, I suppose any doubters that were interested might be able to negotiate some sort of return policy with Brian if they purchase the plate and then consider the difference absent or negligible.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZenCruiser @ Aug 13 2006, 05:03 PM) [snapback]302658[/snapback]</div>

Now that's really interesting - could you take pictures or, better yet, videos and post them java script:emoticon('', 'smid_5')

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 13 2006, 02:19 PM) [snapback]302663[/snapback]</div>

Yeah it would be nice but I don't expect anything like that. I think people have misunderstood what I'm trying to get at here. I don't want Brian to prove that the plate works. My problem isn't with him. I want to make that very clear. I also want to make clear that I'm open to either possibility (the plate helps or doesn't). The cost effectiveness of his R&D is a red herring.

My problem is with the 'shout downs' that those who deigned to question the status quo received in those two very long threads. From the perspective of an objective observer (which I am - I have no stake in who "wins", nor do I have a preconceived notion regarding the efficacy of the plate), much of the content of those threads is emotional and irrational.

Even in this thread I've been very careful not to say anything about whether I think the plate will, or will not work, yet people are still lining up to debate me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 13 2006, 02:19 PM) [snapback]302663[/snapback]</div>

Why not?

[attachmentid=4477]

 

I was just re-reading those threads to see if there was anything I missed, and I came across this -
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pogo @ Aug 2 2006, 08:23 AM) [snapback]296292[/snapback]</div>

Hmm... interesting. Again, I apologize for calling your poll meaningless. I see it in a whole new light now.

Favorite quote from that thread -
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScottR @ Aug 4 2006, 05:12 AM) [snapback]297580[/snapback]</div>

:lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wilco @ Aug 13 2006, 08:17 PM) [snapback]302748[/snapback]</div>

Since it's not a visual assessment but rather a seat of the pants feel I think you're making a common mistake. The difference between your head and your a$$.



At least for some people.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 13 2006, 10:15 PM) [snapback]302780[/snapback]</div>

I now know how Christopher Colombus felt when he tried to explain to Queen Isabella that the world was round.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 13 2006, 07:15 PM) [snapback]302780[/snapback]</div>

LOL, you got me! :lol:

I wasn't really trying to make a point with the "snakes". Just a cool illusion that's only somewhat apropos.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(syclone @ Aug 13 2006, 07:31 PM) [snapback]302794[/snapback]</div>

:blink: OK? And which side is which according to you?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wilco @ Aug 13 2006, 11:28 PM) [snapback]302826[/snapback]</div>

Actually, there was a rumor that Colombus had 4 ships - the missing ship - the Santa Clara disappeared when it sailed over the edge. Now this is what some folks would want to believe.

Understand that my evaluation of the usefulness of the Bt plate was my own personal observation. I obviously wanted it to work - after all, I spent $160.00 on it. I bought it based on the number of positive reports that I had read. If it had not been effective, I would have been disappointed, but I would never try to cover a bad choice by trying to convince others to make the same bad choice. And, I would have raised hell with PriusChat.

I actually drove no more than 10 miles after the plate was installed. To me, the change was so dramatic, that the purchase of the plate was totally justified. If someone disagrees, that is their right. If you haven't purchased the plate and tried it, you can howl at the moon all you want to - your criticisims have no validity. If you have the plate and feel it's useless, or even a fraud, I would scratch my head and wonder, put I would accept your opinion and respect you for "swimming against the tide of opinion". But I wouldn't resort to name calling which seems to be very prevelant on a lot of enthusiast web sites.

Please don't try to argue the "science" of it, because nobody seems to know exactly what the plate does. Toyota thought it was important enough to place it there in the first place, so they had some idea of what was going on. When we took the old plate off the car today. I was able to flex the plate with some difficulty - but it did flex. The BT plate was absolutely rigid (in human hands anyway). So what ever the old plate does, the new one seems to do better (again, in my opinion). It would be interesting to remove the plate totally, and drive the car to see what negative characteristics reared their heads.

My other car is a BMW 528i. It handles very well. The Prius handling was crappy by comparison. With the plate in place the Prius handling is around 75% of the BMW's instead of the previous 25 -35%. Again, my opinion.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(syclone @ Aug 13 2006, 07:31 PM) [snapback]302794[/snapback]</div>

Many people have seen the Fountain of Youth too.

Many also have mathematically proven for ages that the Earth was round while the status quo faithfully believed the written words the Earth was flat. Some still do in fact.

 

Interim Report: :blink:

As I said yesterday after only a few miles, the BT plate basically removed all evidence of rear end steering/instability - at least up to around 50 MPH. Tracking was rock solid, even over uneven pavement.

Today while driving on the Long Island Expressway an 70 MPH + speeds I did notice some rear end wiggle creeping in. It's far better than had been, but it was there.

The next issue is tires. The narrow crappy tires have to contribute something to the equation. I have a feeling that the high speed instability would be take care of by improved tires. I don't think just new tires would have been the solution for the low speed instability on RR tracks and expansion strips, but you never Know!

I'll post results and impressions as I get more time on the Plate.

 

I thought that I would post my impressions here of the plate. I have a 2006 and I was not happy with the handling of the car and found this website that was offering the stiffening plate. I received and installed mine last month and could immediately feel the difference in better handling. For 150 dollars it was a no brainer for me and made my car much nicer to drive.

 

First off I'm going to apologize for breaking the quote of your post down into sections. I don't really like this style of posting, but I worked a 13 hour shift today on 5 hours sleep and I'm a little punchy right now, so the only way I can keep this clear is to go point by point.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(syclone @ Aug 13 2006, 09:04 PM) [snapback]302839[/snapback]</div>

Interesting, I did not know that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(syclone @ Aug 13 2006, 09:04 PM) [snapback]302839[/snapback]</div>

That's all good. I respect that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(syclone @ Aug 13 2006, 09:04 PM) [snapback]302839[/snapback]</div>

I've never criticized the product itself. When did I engage in name calling?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(syclone @ Aug 13 2006, 09:04 PM) [snapback]302839[/snapback]</div>

I've never engaged in any speculation, nor have I ever argued the science of it (nor was I going to). Do a search.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(syclone @ Aug 13 2006, 09:04 PM) [snapback]302839[/snapback]</div>

I find that to be a curious statement.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(syclone @ Aug 13 2006, 09:04 PM) [snapback]302839[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, it would be.

People still seem to be missing my point. Anyone who dares to ask for analysis, measurement, test data, or even theoretical info, is met with a degree of hostility. It's even happening a little in this thread - not the hostility, but the debate keeps coming - yet I defy anyone to show me where I've said anything negative about the BT Plate.

If someone posted a 'why buy a Prius?' question on this board, would the only replies be along the lines of, we like it and so should you, and if that's not good enough for you then don't buy one, or would people also talk about the mileage, emissions, true total cost of ownership, resale, tax credit, etc., i.e. measurable data?

 

I think owners of the BT plate just get tired of the endless droning of "nobody will give me data... I need more data," over and over. Anything said by owners of the plate is derided as "only anecdotal" and "without scientific credibility." So there we have it. One side won't accept any information that currently exists. The other can't provide any data acceptable to the first. Checkmate. Endless discussions, leading nowhere. All over a product that costs so little it is pointless to even discuss it.

Buy it. Or don't. It really is that simple.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jbarnhart @ Aug 15 2006, 01:39 AM) [snapback]303416[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, I'll agree with that. I wouldn't have said "endless droning", but you've summed it up well.

 

I'm on wilco's side, if he's on a side of this debate at all:

I totally accept and respect the anecdotal evidence, and I'm thrilled for the people who are thoroughly convinced the plate was worth their money. That alone is ALMOST enough to make me think I need to buy it, because I've also noticed some funny handling at highway speeds.

AND, I'd like to know the result of the kind of testing syclone suggested, if anyone could come up with that.

Honestly though, I believe the testimonials enough, especially syclone who put it in as clear and articulte a way as I've read through ALL this posting about it, so my real question, and probably the question that all non-BT plate users should ask themselves is this: Is the handlind bad enough, or possibly unsafe enough that we're really motivated to do something about it?

My answer after about 2k miles on my '06: meh?