Poll for users of the BT Plate

well, i am completely unable to understand how a person discounts real user experiences for numerical data. especially when the opinion is overwhelmingly positive for the plate.

to me, that is an insult. it says we are a group of half-witted, numbskulls who are easily led by public opinion and cant make an informed statement over our own experiences. this is a rather huge community made up of the upper half of society. engineers, scientists, doctors, and others where examining and questioning personal observations is a large part of their existance.

afaik owning a Prius goes a long way towards disputing that. well tried to be civil about this post, but it has gone beyond ridiculous and is now nothing but a circle jerk

 

Thank you for the poll.

I was a little surprised by the presence of the

• It didn't make any improvement, but it's not much money

option and the absence of the

• It made some improvement, but it wasn't worth the money

option. It almost makes me think there was an unintended bias going into the poll design.

Perhaps an opponent would add another options like

• After spending a non-refundable $160 plus installation, of course I found an improvement.
• I'd rather not talk about it.
• No comment.
• Why? Would you like to buy mine?

I know I tend to rationalize my choices, especially when I cannot reverse them.

Still, I found the poll results impressive and the poll helpful. Thank you.

Given the relatively low production scale and very high customer satisfaction, it would probably be more expensive for Brian to 'prove' the plate's effectiveness than it would be for him to offer a strong, no questions asked, money back, customer satisfaction guarantee. Some tire manufacturers and dealers will offer a 30 day test drive. Of course, even this isn't necessary to persuade most buyers.

For the few who bravely answered

• It didn't make any improvement, but it's not much money

Please PM me. I have some things to sell to you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jbarnhart @ Aug 15 2006, 03:39 AM) [snapback]303416[/snapback]</div>

Thank you!!! That's a great summary and well put. You took the words (that I could not find) out of my mouth.

 

I would reiterate that I don't think most of us non-BT plate owners are deriding or discounting user testimonials, but that we're used to getting both kinds of input; we rely upon both testimonials (which for any product can and DO vary widely based upon the owner's experience, perception, bias, error, and any number of factors both positive and negative), AND specs, both in the form of manufacturer-provided information, and third-party testing. I honestly don't think it's too much to ask, or at least to wonder about.

But I still say the question for those considering the purchase is, do I really need some (possibly non-quantifiable) improvement in handling?

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for quantifiable information. But there isn't any, other than the comparative flex of the two plates, and I'm not sure it would make a huge difference if there was. Knowing whether the slalom speed is 45.3 or 57.4 wouldn't change the fact that the plate improves how the car feels, and driver feel is vital. As for the 'no refund' policy, I'd make enough noise that Brian would beg to give back my money just to shut me up.

 

Maybe it's as simple as this:

Those that don't want to buy it, because they don't believe 1) it is worth the cost 2) it works at all 3) possible handling improvement over stock is necessary, don't buy it.

Those that only require recommendations from people that have tried it, buy it, at your own risk.

Those that may want to buy it, but want verifiable data that performance is improved, pool your money, buy a plate, buy or rent the required equipment and personnel if necessary, test it with and without, and publish. I'm sure everyone here would love to know the results and the testing methodology.

Being that it did begin as a poll for those who had installed it in their car, I really don't understand the motive behind those replying who did not install it (and therefore cannot possibly honestly answer the poll questions). The original poll asked for an opinion of the BT plate, most noticeable difference, and year of Prius you own (inferring that this is the car it was installed in). If they ran a poll for how it felt to give birth, I'm pretty sure, being male, that my repies would be considered, justifiably so, useless.

Maybe there should have been an option that read: I don't have one installed, but I still have an opinion on it...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jbarnhart @ Aug 15 2006, 03:39 AM) [snapback]303416[/snapback]</div>

Gee, that sounds like the discussions on Global Warming and The Theory of Evolution.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jbarnhart @ Aug 15 2006, 01:39 AM) [snapback]303416[/snapback]</div>

Stalemate.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jbarnhart @ Aug 15 2006, 01:39 AM) [snapback]303416[/snapback]</div>

Sure, as long as people quit saying this plate is a guaranteed way to improve the Prius handling. Many have experienced it, but it has not been tested in "labs". Besides, how difficult is it to photo an OEM plate bending/bouncing/twisting during use?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Aug 15 2006, 09:05 AM) [snapback]303537[/snapback]</div>

It's not amazing so many engineers, scientists, and doctors here are working off testimonials and self-observation without anything more conclusive than that? Us who calculate MPG with temperature charts, tire grip in the snow/wet, and tire weights and sizes and how they exactly reduce MPG, etc etc? You have to admit this is grey area in the field of heavy numerical Prius-scape.

Here's a quote I found recently:
Science inherently threatens any form of ill-founded blind belief, and seeks to find support and evidence for all ideas.

Meantime, I have some equipment to test with but I'm testing it on the Sportivos first, unless I find a friendly local person with it whom will let me do some testing.

The poll is missing "how much of an improvement did you experience when you just switched out your OEM tires vs the BT plate". My opinion is most of the wiggling comes from the OEM tires, some from the soft progressive suspension, and some from possibly the Prius is weighted more like a MR than the FF/FR people expect.

MRs have the center-of-gravity near the middle of the car due to engine placement (or batteries such as the Prius) which coincidentally coincides with the rear seats and the plate area.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jbarnhart @ Aug 15 2006, 01:39 AM) [snapback]303416[/snapback]</div>

Pascal's Wager aka Pascal's Flaw, petitio principii...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NuShrike @ Aug 15 2006, 03:32 PM) [snapback]303667[/snapback]</div>

Car and Driver's old roadtest of the 2004 Prius indicates a pretty conventional FF (front engine, front wheel drive) center of gravity.

 

My wife and I have been driving our "new" 06 Prius for almost 2,000 miles, now, all with the dealer-prepped 30 lbs. per tire. We drove our 2004 30,000 before trading it in (after reinstalling the oem plate and intending to use BT's on our 06). We both felt very uncomfortable with the stability of the 04 until the (same) dealer made a "very slight" correction to the front wheel toe-in. Then we were only slightly uncomfortable. Bought and installed the BT plate several thousand miles later, and experienced another increment of increased stability - enough to justify the expense and installation effort.

I have postponed installing the BT plate because (1) the 06 handles much as the 04 did afterinstallation of the BT, and (2) I want an independent estimate of the change in tire pressures. I just increased tire pressures to 42 front, 40 rear, but have not driven it yet. I'll drive for a week or two, before installing the BT plate and posting my new estimate on the poll. Hmm... Danny may have installed a disqualification against multiple votes on polls - I posted based on my experience with the 04. We'll see. :mellow:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 15 2006, 11:45 AM) [snapback]303640[/snapback]</div>

Global warming and evolution are based on the collection and analysis of DATA!

I give up

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wilco @ Aug 16 2006, 02:49 PM) [snapback]304223[/snapback]</div>

I looked at the current vote total and it said 165 with 80 something percent positive - that looks very much like overwhelming. But then when I added the numbers, it looks like only 55 people have voted, and the vote is the total vote in all three categories.

It would be interesting for Danny to give us some idea of how many people have ordered the BT Plate in total.

Of course, no matter what happens it looks like the pros and cons have set their feet in concrete. One side accusing the other side of mass hysteria, and the other saying "sour grapes"

Everytime I go over a bumpy road and the car handles better, I have the double hit of the car performing well and the wonderful feeling of being overcome with hysteria.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZenCruiser @ Aug 11 2006, 10:01 PM) [snapback]301879[/snapback]</div>

Oh joy - another Prius driving, nature lover.
Typical. Why don't you go hug a tree?