Poll: Why are we hated?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by 310, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. Insight-I Owner

    Insight-I Owner 2006 Insight-I MT + 2011 Prius

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    But it doesn't charge the battery all the way up. Phew, that took a long time to clarify.
    Yes it varies. I don't have a lot of data for the Prius but experience with my previous non-hybrid showed remarkably little penalty. The boats are hydrodynamic, so that may translate into aerodynamic somewhat.
     
  2. Insight-I Owner

    Insight-I Owner 2006 Insight-I MT + 2011 Prius

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    Speaking as a chemist, I'd opine that the electrons don't know the difference. In the Insight world, regen applies equally to charge gained from braking and from drag on the ICE: the same green bars light up.
     
  3. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

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    Charging a regular prius from empty (purple) to full, provides about 500Wh. The Volt's SOC target is 22%, with a normal variation of 500wh, and a max range of 1250 wh) so the Volt's CS_mode "charging" range is about the same in normal use and larger in hilly settings. It can "regen" to much higher battery levels -- I've added 30 miles of EV range (or about 9kw of charging via regen) but the ICE will shutoff at at 22% and not restart until is well below that.

    In a similarly manner the Prius PHV has a "EV" range and a HV range. Once its done using its grid based energy in HV mode, the PHV will only "charge" via ICE to a similar state of charge as the regular Prius -- a window of about 500wh.
    It too can regen on downhills to a much larger higher rate.
     
  4. Jason dinAlt

    Jason dinAlt Member

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    Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
    George Carlin
     
  5. Insight-I Owner

    Insight-I Owner 2006 Insight-I MT + 2011 Prius

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    Some drivers are both.
     
  6. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Do you know the difference between earning money and a gift? The dollars in your wallet are the same.

    Your argument is silly to the extreme. I hope and assume other Insight owners are smart enough to understand the difference.

    The fundamental difference between regeneration and charging is the same as being given a gift verses working for your money. The "generation" part is the same in both cases, but the "re" implies that it is being recovered. Regeneration is generation without doing explicit work: you are recovering energy that would otherwise be wasted. Generation through the ICE explicitly burns gas to charge the battery. It's an important and simple difference.

    Tom
     
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  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Actually, the Prius haters are pretty good about posting their 'angst'. Using a quick Google search for "I hate Prius" we can find plenty of excuses:
    • Projecting that we care about their ride - not really, just trying not to be hit or hit them. It is called dealing with traffic.
    • Projecting that we care about acceleration, disabling traction control, and rally steering - not really as long as share the roads with buses, semi-trailer trucks, utility, and delivery vans.
    • Projecting that interior, driving comfort, noise, and handling are what most matters - not really, a car only has to get us to where we want to go and be affordable, an appliance.
    • Projecting that we are all 'green' and 'environmental' - it varies but mostly it is a question of cost-per-mile, the recurring operational cost for our driving and life-style. So they assert false claims about non-driving environmental effects.
    • Projecting that other cars get equal to or better mileage - not really, we have requirements in addition to milage and the Prius meets our needs. It is why the two-seat, Honda Insight is no longer in production and there is a growing selection of smaller, limited mission, EVs and plug-ins. The largest, affordable, cross-country version being the Prius plug-in.
    • Projecting that Prius should not get tax, HOV lane or parking preferences - with the exception of the plug-in and EVs, those benefits have pretty much evaporated and many of us never had them.
    • Projecting that Prius drivers are slow except when they pass at 90 mph (actually faster) - the old if you aren't following me, you're a bad driver excuse.
    • Projecting that Prius owners are snobs, smug, or look down on others - pretty much their last attempt to justify their own, judgmental, character failings.
    There is no single "poll" answer but a broad spectrum of Prius hater excuses.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  8. Insight-I Owner

    Insight-I Owner 2006 Insight-I MT + 2011 Prius

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    Regeneration and charging are the same chemical process: charging the battery is the same as regenerating it to its original state, the terminology doesn't distinguish where the current comes from. It's actually flowing from the same MG units either way, so even that is no help. You can make your artificial distinction if you like, but that won't affect English usage.

    "Regenerative braking" explains where it comes from.

    " the same as being given a gift verses working for your money." - versus Look it up.

    Your response helps answer the OP's question here.

    P.S. Here's a shot of the Insight's FCD, which shows that the one side is labeled simply "Charge" independent of whether the charging comes from braking or what we call "background charging" from the ICE:
    Insight FCD 7:20:2010.jpg
     
  9. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    This is one of the most willfully obtuse statements that I have ever read. It's not an artificial distinction, it's an important distinction.

    Why stop with regeneration and charging being the same chemical process? Why don't we also acknowledge that all energy is the same and that all energy is the same as matter - it's all part of space-time. Now we can see that your regenerated energy is really the same as the black clear coat paint on my Prius. It all comes from the same place.

    This is a silly argument you are pursuing. Save yourself the embarrassment and stop.

    Tom
     
  10. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Somehow I doubt that. I saved this choice quote from a tea bagger a year or two ago:
    ""I feel the president is destroying the freedom and liberty of our nation using tax money to support green jobs that are unproven and using chemicals that can destroy the environment," said Newaygo resident Andrea Blackford, who came with her family to protest."
     
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  11. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    If I say oxidation and reduction are the same chemical process, will any chemist object?
     
  12. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Obviously different, just like toemaytoe and towmahtoe.
     
  13. colbertfan1

    colbertfan1 Junior Member

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    I just got my first eye roll today by my stepmother. Of course she is an Coulter/Palin disciple so maybe I should take that as a compliment.


     
  14. Insight-I Owner

    Insight-I Owner 2006 Insight-I MT + 2011 Prius

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    Namecalling is always a good option when you don't understand what you are talking about. Just another dose of the arrogance too often apparent here. But hey this is just a forum.

    Regeneration and charging mean one and the same thing: raising the SOC of the battery. If you want to distinguish where the energy came from you need a distinct term for using the ICE to increase the SOC. "Charging" doesn't cut it because regenerative braking also "charges" the battery = increases its state of charge. If you can't get that I'm sorry I can't help you.
     
  15. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    I hate Prius Owners because of the persecution complex so many of them seem to have......and enjoy.

    Believe it or not? I think most people don't hate you...I think for the vast majority of the automotive world...The Prius is met with the complete apathy that the freedom to purchase whatever automobile you want and can afford creates.

    I think you guys enjoy the idea that you are so "special" that you are especially hated....

    Some people hate Kittens...Babies and Dogs...so yeah, you'll always find some people...but I really think this issue get's over blown.

    Prius Chat is IMO the most dynamic and active Automotive Enthusiast website I know of...if outside the community of ownership you were so universally hated this simply would not be the case.

    Lighten Up....I'll hate you as much as you want...if it makes you feel better.
     
  16. mad-dog-one

    mad-dog-one Prius Enthusiast

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    A process differs from an action, just as the process of turning requires opposite actions to move an object left versus right. Does this all mean that Prius drivers are really loved less than drivers of other cars, not hated?
     
  17. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Regeneration and charging result in the same thing: charging. While they achieve the same results, the distinction is worth noting. It is a different process. The increase in SOC was never in question.

    Rain and running the sprinkler both result in a watered lawn, but they are distinct and different processes.

    Likewise a battery can be recharged by forcing electrons through it, or by introducing fresh reactants. The result is the same, but the process is dramatically different.

    In the case of the Prius, the important notion is that direct charging burns gasoline to raise the SOC, while regenerative charging uses otherwise wasted energy. It's a pretty simple distinction.

    Tom
     
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  18. Reedja42

    Reedja42 2012 Prius, Gen III, Barcelona Red, (FRED)

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    From a Broadcast Engineer to a fellow Electrical Engineer; only an engineer can appreciate the subtle distinctions that you correctly state. Unfortunately I fear you are wasting your breath with this guy. It’s similar to trying to stuff more electrons into a battery that is fully charged, no matter how hard you push they won’t go in.

    By the way, kudos for using one of my favorite words, “obtuse”, I love that word.
     
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  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    because we represent everything that is good and right in america. and they know they should be doing the same thing but can't reign in their desire for 'look at me' cars.
     
  20. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

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    I think google agrees. I went to try to graph google trending on Prius Hate and guess what it said?



    On the other had the scoring at amplicate is more negative (Only negative car I found there)



    Why Do People Hate Prius? 63% People Do (870 opinions)

    Maybe people should go give their prius some love there.
     
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