Poor steering and handling on the highway.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Batavier\";p=\"48237)</div>

as long as they are outside loops.. and the prop stops at the top.... :lol: he said as a Pile-It of a Cessna 140 and a Stearman..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kerensky\";p=\"51805)</div>

No I didn't. I started a new job on the 15th and just could not get away. In any case they were supposed to call me back and schedule something but did not. I'm pretty discouraged about it all since this has been going on for about a year now with little improvement. It's probably the state of the roads that I usually drive on that makes it so bad but that's not excuse.

Today I had to get the steering wheel straightened and some squeaks looks at by the dealer. At least the steering wheel is now centered. I swear this car is dangerous at times. Once as a motor home passed me my car literally jumped about a foot to the right. If I had been nearer the edge of the land I might have grazed the car next to me. Another time I was caught in a lane with a very wide expansion joint right under the tire. It felt like the car was hinged in the middle and someone else was wiggling a steering wheel for the back tiires. The car in front of me was not moving around at all in spite of being right over the expansion joint too. I could not take my eyes off the road for even a split second to adjust the stereo.

It's time like this that I feel like giving up and just selling the car which I might finally do soon. I've been talking to my neighbor, who bought my perfect condiition 1990 CRX-SI, about buyintg it back. If he says yes next week I'm going to dump this turkey for good. It gets 30-32 around town, and 36-39 on the highway, is a little rocket to drive, has a full 11+ gal gas tank ( not 8.5 like mine), and tracks pretty well. Best of all it will only cost me $3500 to get it back! I've just run out of options and patience with the Prius. As good as all the technology is that they put in the car it's a mixed experience driving it for me.

 

Fred the SD club has a meeting on Dec 5th with someone from Toyota...maybe you should be at that meeting..

Bob Andersen

 

Perhaps, Fred should, but he has been quite frustrated for some time with problems that most of us do not seem to have. For him it may be time to just cash out. He seems to have lost much sleep over his steering problems as witnessed by the vast majority of his posts. :goodmorning:

Bet he will get a good price for his Prius when/if he decides he cannot take the stress any longer.

 

The main problem with the crappy steering and handeling is the steering ratio, horrible tires, weight distribution, caster, toe-in, and soft suspension.

 

I must be bored tonight if I'm looking at old posts ...

Within the first 3 weeks of ownership I noticed the overly sensitive steering and wander issues. I had the dealer put on Michelin Harmony tires and do an alignment, where they discovered the difference in camber. Toe was at factory spec.

That seemed to resolve a lot of the handling issues, until it started to snow and rain here. I was still waiting for my Dunlop Graspic DS2 winter tires, so I drove out to the hobby farm a few times on the all season tires.

I had a scare around 2 weeks ago: the Trans Canada had snow/ice/slush, but no worse than I've driven on before in other cars and trucks. I adjusted my speed to 70 km/h, which I thought was prudent, though I was still being passed by others.

Every once in awhile, the car felt like it was fishtailing. Nothing dramatic to where the VSC engaged, but a sort of pendulum rhythm that was enough to make me a bit queasy and nervous.

If I let go of the steering wheel, the car continued that weird oscillation, and it definitely felt like the back was doing it. I slowed to 65 km/h and it seemed fine.

With my Dunlop Graspic DS-2 winter tires on, I can drive at 70-80 km/h on the same snowy roads and feel in complete control. Not any faster though, I'm very prudent about winter driving.

I'm wondering if the much better winter traction of the Graspic tires have either minimized or even covered up any rear end sway? I just couldn't believe how it felt like the rear end wanted to steer with the all-season tires on ice. You would think the softer tread and increased sidewall flex of the Graspic tires would have made the problem worse.

Some of you have commented on the "soft" suspension of the Prius contributing to the oscillation, or perhaps a "soft" tire sidewall. Yet I could crank my Michelin Harmony tires up to the 44psi max, and it didn't seem to change the handling, just made the ride much worse. The difference in MPG was 1-2 MPG, not worth the bone-jarring ride.

As far as "soft" suspension, my folks have a 2003 Buick LeSabre Celebration Edition (They're lifelong Buick drivers!). That car is quite soft and floaty at 110 km/h, but you always feel in complete control. Indeed, with Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50 tires on all four wheels, that car is a tank in winter.

Many soft-riding cars are also safe cars. Bone-jarring ride does not equate good handling, and in many cases if a suspension is too stiff you can get into real trouble on rough roads, especially washboardy surfaces.

I wonder if Toyota set tolerance on the edge with the suspension or EPS, and in some cars all the tolerance factors happen to conspire against you? If indeed 10% of Prius owners have this issue, that would be serious.

Did FredWB ever get his handling issue fixed, or did he have to get rid of his Prius??

 

Interesting comment in Road&Track magazine, January 2005 issue. Long term test of 2004 Prius. Page 115, "The car lacks stability on the freeway, especially when mixing with big trucks, and any change in crosswind seems to affect its stability, causing me to have to make constant minor steering corrections".
Members comments of this forum and this article have lead me to believe that this may not be the car for me. I placed an order for a car last month and have been very interested in this subject. Most of my driving is on the highway, this issue would be a problem for me, especially after driving cars that are great in the handling department.
Does anyone know if there has been any changes in the 2005 model year that would alleviate this problem?

 

I just picked up my 2005 last Wednesday and equipped it with Michelin X-Ice tires. Observations so far are as follows:
1. The Michelins seem to have been a good choice for a snow tire. The grip on ice and snow has been excellent. The ride is soft. Handling is less than crisp on dry pavement, but it is very predictable. No problems on snow and slush at up to 80 km. I wouldn't have felt safe in any car going faster in these conditions.

2. Regarding highway stability, I find that at speeds up to 110 km/h the car is stable and wants to track straight. However, and this has been commented on earlier in this thread, the steering is very light, very quick, and very direct at these speeds and it would be easy to overcorrect if you're not accustomed to this. I found that if I used very limited corrections the car was a breeze to drive on the highway...in fact, it seemed to take less attention than driving my '03 Tundra which is generally a very capable highway vehicle. I certainly didn't find the need to make constant corrections to the steering with light to moderate crosswinds or when larger vehicles went by at speed.

3. I haven't driven in really heavy crosswinds yet, but 20-30 km winds don't seem to have much influence. I suspect that the tendency to 'oversteer' the vehicle when you do get hit with a gust may cause some of the feeling of instability that follows.

4. I would feel comfortable driving this car at constant speeds up to 120 or perhaps 130 kilometers per hour (80-85 mph) given the right road conditions. Others on this board report comfortable driving at similar speeds.

 

Change the tires to something better and see if you notice an improvement. Try that before you sell it

 

I've had mine for three weeks now and have driven on the highway quite a bit up to 80 mph comfortably for extended periods of time in some cases with 20-30 mph cross-winds (Cali-Valley). No problems whatsoever - my assumption is that there must be a problem with adjustments to alignment/camber/steering/electronics. My car is great and smooth - like a good bourbon. Cheers and good luck!

 

I picked up my 2005 this tuesday (12/14) and definitely noticed an alignment issue...the steering wheel is centering 2-3 degrees right of center. The feel and response otherwise are fine, of course it doesn't even come close to the response of the car i left behind for this (a Lexus IS 300 with 17" performance tires, coilovers, strut tower bars and upgraded sways and underbody bracing) but I'm not expecting it to. Wish they could have at least calibrated it correctly before handing it over to me though :roll:

 

It doesn't seem anyone centers the steering wheel anymore without begging.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman\";p=\"56820)</div>

I still have it and the issues. Since I've seen some European owners post this complaint I'm in agreement that the suspension is probably not the root cause. That is assuming that all supspension components are functioning correctly. That only leaves a few options. Assuming that there are really "rock steady", "tracking" Prius out there, it's got to be some tolerance issue or component defect that just affects some cars. Of course not all drive on wavy road grooves like in SoCal either. I did find some reference to a center or null adjustment for the EPS that the manual says should be calibrated if removing the steering column. But my dealer insists there isn't any adjustment. I'm going to show him this page this weekend and pay to get whatever calibration there is done on the EPS unit.

It really pains me to read people saying how well their cars handle when mine is so far from even accepable in my mind. I've driven and owned many, many vehicles. Even some where the handling was unsafe. But I've always found something to correct it.

Toyota won't look at it a 2nd time either. They said to go to arbitration. This in inspite of a handful of owners at our last SD Club meeting asking the Engineer from Toyota why our cars wander. And I didn't say a word about the issue because I've said too much, lol. His response was that he was not aware of the problem!!!! Wouldn't you think that all the comments from the reviewers of this car would raise a flag for the manufacturer that something is really wrong with "some" of the Prius?

 

Fred:

You're very lucky that you HAVE an owner's club where you live! All I can suggest is that you track down all the folks in that club with the same handling issues, then you spend some time at your word processor.

Click out a very polite, factual letter about the handling issues. Include photocopies of work orders or any other correspondence with Toyota. Put all the names of the affected owners, and have all of you sign the letter.

It has been my experience when dealing with product quality issues that, short of participating in a class-action suit (You may fix the problem, but lawyers get rich in the process, so that's a last-ditch effort), the best thing to do is get a small group with similar complaints.

Individuals are nothing in our society, unless you have money and therefore power. Groups bring power and strength, so don't be afraid to get a group involved.

Most people are psychologically incapable of confronting a large entity, due to some misconceived and irrational fear. It's not like the Toyota Hit Squad will break down your door at 2am, threaten you at gunpoint, and steal your housecat.

The very fact that Toyota rep claimed he wasn't "aware" of a problem speaks volumes. Hear No Evil, See No Evil, Speak No Evil. Right??

The pavement here in Manitoba is also quite grooved and crowned, especially the TransCanada east of Winnipeg towards Falcon Lake. I've driven my parents 2003 Buick LeSabre with the cruise at 120 km/h and one finger on the wheel. It tracks like it was on rails.

I thought I had most of the handling issues resolved with the camber adjustment and the switch to Michelin Harmony tires. Driving a few times on snow/ice proved otherwise. Thank God you don't have to drive in similar conditions!

Snow and Ice on the roads is pretty much a fact of life here for most of the winter, so you want a safe car and prudent winter driving skills. Every car and pickup truck I've driven in the past has been very predictable at its limit: either the back end swings out or the front end plows.

I've never driven a vehicle where the back end felt like it was trying to steer. Yet that was the sensation I had driving my Prius at 70 km/h on snow/ice with the all-season tires.

Before I get flamed about driving too fast in those conditions, I was being passed by every other car/truck on the road, and they didn't appear to have any handling issues. The car had a definite rhythm to how it swayed back and forth.

With the Dunlop Graspic DS-2 winter tires on, I can now safely drive at 70 km/h in the same conditions, without any noticeable steering from the rear. If "soft" suspension or "soft" tires were the culprit, then my soft, squishy Graspic winter tires should have made the handling much worse, not better.

The soft and floaty ride in my parents LeSabre should also make the car wander all over the place, but the few times I've driven it I've found it one of the easiest cars I've ever driven: one finger on the wheel.

As an example, if I have the cruise at 105 km/h in my Prius, on the TransCanada by the floodway bridge, and there is a very strong wind from the south or north (In Winnipeg, there is ALWAYS a very strong wind from one direction or another!), I must use extra caution.

The first time under such weather conditions, the car suddenly darted over a lane. Good thing there was nobody in that lane, it could have been messy. The same conditions driving my folks LeSabre, nothing. One finger on the wheel, like nothing happened. My 2000 GMC Sierra, a slight drift but easily correctible.

For city traffic at speeds 70 km/h and under, where my Prius spends 90% of its time, it handles as well as any other car. For highway and especially Interstate speeds, I really don't trust it anymore. I'd much rather borrow the folks LeSabre and use twice the fuel, but have a relaxed and zero-stress trip.

 

Yes I know what you mean about the back end having a mind of it's own. There's almost a rotation going on about the middle of the car and throw in a swaying motion with each SMALL correction you must make to stay in the lane and you can get tired at speed in a hurry. The car has a way of getting your attention....total attention. We've had 40+ mph gusts lately here with the Santa Ana winds and I've felt the car want to dart suddenly more than a few times.

 

got rid of oem tires and changed out to goodyear triple treads with 195 60 15s...the extra width is a big difference...i can mix with 75mph semis and have no problems in drift or sway now...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wb9tyj\";p=\"58325)</div>

I wish I had kept the 195's too. The Hydroedge design is very similar to the triple tread. While I didnt' notice any hit on highway, the "perception" was that around town suffered the most but I could never really prove that. I put on about 1000 miles mostly on the freeway and was at or above my lifetime (10,000 mile) average of 48.8. In fact I think it was about 49.5 for the 1000 miles, but mostly freeway, with a trip to Vegas too. But I didn't seem to see the high mpg number you sometimes get when the car is warmed up.

How is your fuel economy doing?

 

Fred, have you had a chance to drive anyone else's 2004 or 2005 Prius to compare with yours?

I'm really sorry you're having so much trouble. Please know they aren't all like this. I've had mine up to 103 (for a short time) in the flatlands of Wyoming and it felt completely solid. I drive the freeways of Los Angeles, we have those awful grooves in the road, too, but haven't had any problems with it feeling swishy or like the back end was moving around. I do remember feeling that when I test drove a 4 Runner. At 55mph on the freeway it felt like it was going into a fishtail.

Be persistant, make them fix it, something is wrong! Good luck.

 

MPG with the triple treads is about 1-2 mpg less across the board, however, i see most of the lower mpg in the city driving...as far as highway goes, no difference...now overall we've taken a hit on gas mileage only due to cold weather...i can still keep the low 40smpgs when the temps are in the lower 20s to upper teens (F).

 

Just finished an 800 mile trip...mostly highway...strong winter winds (1/2 of the time the winds were coming at my left rear quarter -driving east-and the last 1/2 at my right front quarter-driving west). I had absolutely NO problems with handling (OEM tires, BTW).

I've driven this route at least 20 times over the years in a Ford Taurus and was anticipating the "buffeting effect" of a lighter car on this trip. I was pleasantly surprised. I am sorry that your experiences have been different.