possble new idea for audio settups?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Audio and Electronics' started by neverwinter, Jan 29, 2007.

  1. neverwinter

    neverwinter New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2007
    4
    0
    0
    yes new to the forums and soon new owner of a Toyota Scion xB.

    my hobbies are mainly audio design and development and i got to thinkin one night about the Prius.


    i started doing some research to find out more about the main battery supply and the piston based VVTI engine. knowing that the Prius depends highly on the main battery supply, i got to thinking about a aux. supply for the audio enthusiast.

    i'm thinkin something small to medium in power/size, not much more then about 40-80amps of maximum pull. a com called "Kinetik Audio" has a battery modeled HC600 that is 14lbs in weight, 7 inches long by 6 inches in highth and 3 inches in width, that supplies a cold crank ability of 850amps while providing upto 20amps a hour.

    the idea - if enough room is present, the use of a compact add-on altenator simular to the stock altenator of a Scion xB *it's VERY small and can be rewired from a standard 80amp max charge/supply to 100amp idle charge/supply and 200amp max*. have this connected to the HC600 located near the sound system's new amplifier. this specific settup saves on weight and at the same time, the integrated VVTI engine should be able to rotate the altenator without trouble at all.

    for an example of a settup... using a JBL PBX500.1 amplifier that supplies about... 650watt average *600-700watt generaly depending on given independence load* and because of it's design is nearly 90% efficient *most amplifiers normaly being around 70%*. match this *staying with same reputable brand here* with maybe a JBL P1022 or P1024, extremely efficient 10 inch subwoofer and medium to light weight OR a JBL W10GTI, slightly more powerful and less efficient, about 2.5 times heavier but having the best sound quality that money can buy.

    now before you say it's too much power and it may sound like an intense system but because of the way the Prius and a handful of other vehicels are designed and depending on the music the user would be listening too, current pull shouldn't be much more then about 15-25amps *based on a 110db near feild listening level, this is a pretty loud level. near feild listening is just that, the audio system very close to you and your ears, 110db is slightly louder then what you experience at the movie theater*.

    the question is... if there is anyway possible way, and i'm also including custom mounting brackets, is there anyway a small aux. altenator can be attatched to the VVTI? the battery supply is only meant to compensate for voltage drops and to help stiffen the current quality near the amplifier so there should be no need for a huge battery, 99.9% of the power supplied should come from the altenator.

    again the question "is there anyway a small aux. altenator can be attatched to the VVTI?", including custom mounting brackets, even if the user has to make thier own in a DIY way.

    it's for those audio enthusiasts who are looking for more efficient vehicels, the Prius came to mind because it's one of more efficient ones on the market. hyrbid system aside, the Prius is actualy VERY simular to the Scion xB from, 500lbs heavier then the xB but when it comes to the sound properties of the materials used it's very simular. the above mentioned settup *JBL BPX500.1, JBL P1022, Kinetik HC600 and altenator* should only add around 75-80lbs *cables and fuses included* thus making it a nice light weight settup.

    thoughts? answers? *be nice, i've leared much about the Prius, but not enough thus why i'm here.*
     
  2. John in LB

    John in LB Life is good

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2006
    399
    26
    0
    Location:
    Orange County
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JBlawless @ Jan 28 2007, 11:55 PM) [snapback]382198[/snapback]</div>

    The Prius has the best battery around already - It has about double the power that you are looking for (about 1300 VA). It of course comes with the right regeneration package and is very efficient.

    Consequently, you should focus your efforts on tapping it this existing large battery for your sound system. The challenge is coordinating the voltage to whatever you are trying to do - I am using the word coordinate because the Prius battery is 200 + VDC and you are use to thinking about 12 VDC... perhaps the audio system can be operated at a higher voltage (which is actually a lot better..) or you can reduce the voltage from the battery down...

    The Prius is unique for what you are trying to do because it already has a fantastic DC power supply already built into it.... so just tap into it...

    By the way, as you use more power for the stereo, the system will automatically react and run the engine more to keep the batteries topped up... but it will be invisible to you the driver (just lower MPGs).

    Good luck...
     
  3. neverwinter

    neverwinter New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2007
    4
    0
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(John in LB @ Jan 29 2007, 06:25 AM) [snapback]382212[/snapback]</div>
    to my understanding though, taping into the exsisting battery supply is extemely dangerous and possibly deadly *i'm told this by the local Toyota mechanic shop*. though i'm not sure about this, taken the proper causions and that won't be a problem. what i'm thinking about though is an easy upgrade process, something that others can use at any time without hassel of a difficult inverter or without much knowledge of electronics. i believe using an add-on altenator, mileage would be effected the same way as if i taped into the many battery, but would be easier to install for others. this is also being based for future make vehicels that will soon be better then Hybrids. because of this, an easy solution would be best for others to avoid hassel with technical difficulties of the mechanics used. so the idea came to mind... why not make custom mounting brackets for specific vehicel builds for an addon power supply that doesn't interfear with the original system. i will however concider it an option and look into it a little more and possibly come up with my own design. i will still inclued a small battery like the Kinetik Audio HC600 as a stiffener for power stability. my goal is to have an addon 100amp 13.8v *12-14.4v range* system available with easy install to audio enthusiasts who have vehicels that are not designed for high power demands *that basicly classifies every vehicel class, but you get the idea.*.

    again i'll take that into concideration and include that in my options. i need to look further into the electrical properties of the main battery. unfortunetly i don't own a Prius to get my hands dirty with, my old man will soon but i doubt he will alow me to touch it.
     
  4. John in LB

    John in LB Life is good

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2006
    399
    26
    0
    Location:
    Orange County
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JBlawless @ Jan 29 2007, 03:49 AM) [snapback]382215[/snapback]</div>
    Of course, if you put your hands across 200 + Volts, you are going to get zapped big time. Except for that part of it, don't be afraid of it... your fear is because you don't know about it (just like the first time you installed a stereo system). From an engineering point of view, what I suggested is much simpler and cleaner than what you are thinking about - You just have to hook up with the right guy to help you set it up - it will be soo easy.

    In terms of stability of power (you called it stiffener) You are just not going to be able to beat the deep cycle batteries that are in the Prius - they are HUGE and have enough power to push around a whole car - leave alone a stereo system.

    Hook up with someone who understands electronics - and you can make a heck of cool system in the Prius - I promise...

    John.
     
  5. kDB

    kDB New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2005
    241
    0
    0
    Location:
    Fenton, MO
    The bpx500.1 has a maximum current draw of 50 amps. You should be just fine wiring it directly to the 12volt battery in the hatch area. The 12v battery may be small, but you have the inverter helping it with power from the hybrid batteries. This is does have a fusable link in it (80 amp iirc).

    As for the alternator, it wouldn't be worth it. The car will sense the power draw and will automatically recharge it with the hybrid system. Just don't run the stereo loud for a long time with the car in just ACC mode. The "cap killer", again not going to be much use. There are three fairly big capacitors inside the inverter.
     
  6. Presto

    Presto Has his homepage set to PC

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2005
    1,326
    20
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Go with what other people have suggested. Just hook it up. The inverter can easily supply the current that your amp demands. I'd only be partially concerned if you are drawing 100+ amps continuously. With my system cranked, I'm only seeing a draw of 80 amps peak, and a nominal draw of 40-50amps. The Prius has a nifty electrical system. One of the features of the Prius is it's lack of alternator. Your best bet is to head over to the Scion board and see what the answer is there. I can't think of anyone who would want/need an alternator on a Prius.
     
  7. neverwinter

    neverwinter New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2007
    4
    0
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Presto @ Jan 29 2007, 04:03 PM) [snapback]382416[/snapback]</div>

    the Scion was just an example of a small altenator size comming from the same company that could be used.

    it's not just a single PBX500.1, a total system overhall of new amp for subs and new amp for mids and highs, pull would be higher in maximum ability but in all reality the user wouldn't pull more then 20-30amps for extremely loud levels because of the crest factor.

    what is ACC mode exactly?

    and below is an explination of the crest factor.



    *general music does not follow the rules of the RMS power ratings of speakers and amplifiers. Amplifiers are rated on maximum non distorted power of upto 0.5% THD to 1% THD based on sinewave signals which are very harsh and demanding. RMS power ratigs of speakers are based on thermal limitations of the voice coil and how well the speaker can cool it's self down while in play. when it comes to actual play time, the sinewave power rating of the amp will be diffrent compared to what will be seen during musical play. what would be pulling 50amps during sinewave testing would only pull around 20amps on the same selected gains and volumes due to the crest factor. the crest factor is just a another way of naming the sound waves the music creates. sinewaves are large and consistant and use alot of energy, cresting waves are all over the place and instead of consistant levels, peaks and dips are everywhere. this is called the crest factor and because of this, uses less power. for a better example, play a song on Windows Media player with the "bars and waves - scope" visual, this will show you exactly what i just explained.*
     
  8. aaf709

    aaf709 Ravenpaw of ThunderClan

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2005
    3,841
    6
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JBlawless @ Jan 29 2007, 01:49 PM) [snapback]382450[/snapback]</div>
    In the "good old days" this ways when you turned the key the opposite way so you could listen to the radio. It stands for ACCESSORIES. The radio, power outlets and MFD are some of the ACC items.
     
  9. kDB

    kDB New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2005
    241
    0
    0
    Location:
    Fenton, MO
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JBlawless @ Jan 29 2007, 03:49 PM) [snapback]382450[/snapback]</div>
    If you push the start button once without pushing on the brake, the Prius will go into ACC mode. In this mode only a few things get power, radio being one of them. The inverter does not work in this mode, therefore you are only running the accessories off of the tiny 12v battery.

    If you push the brake in while pressing start, the car will go into ready mode (ready to drive). Or you can press the start button twice. These two ways the inverter will turn on.

    As for the danger of getting electrocuted. Don't work on the car unless it is turned off. Don't touch the orange wires. If I remember correctly, the orange wires run by the rear driver's side wheel well inside the car. After that I think they go outside the car, but I didn't look very hard. When I ran my wires I ran them down the driver's side with plenty of room to not touch the orange wires.
     
  10. neverwinter

    neverwinter New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2007
    4
    0
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aaf709 @ Jan 29 2007, 05:06 PM) [snapback]382462[/snapback]</div>
    excuse me for not understanding the abbreviations <_<

    *puts it in his notes* thanks for that, i'll keep that handy.
     
  11. lenjack

    lenjack Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    796
    98
    0
    Location:
    Pennsylvania USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    "Independence mode"? You have got to mean impedance load.
     
Loading...