Possible Pricing Release

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Tideland Prius, Jun 25, 2016.

  1. avid

    avid New Member

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    There is no need to pay the CA state tax. One takes an out of state delivery either by having the car shipped to the CA border or taken by a driver. I have taken delivery in Henderson, NV and Yuma, AZ. When you live in a state with no sales tax it makes a BIG difference.

    Here's the paperwork
     
  2. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    I was initially worried about purchasing in Ca. and paying some higher Ca. sales tax rate until I actually checked just what the sales taxes were in most areas of California. I had imagined something like 9 to 11%. Here, my local dealer is 9% (ouch). Most areas of California are 7.5 and 8%. The highest is LA, which is 9%. So, for me, it would be a wash, or less, if I bought out there.

    Dianne is currently not selling out of state sales. She told me that in an email, and was very brief about it. Too bad, but I called 5 other dealers literally right around her and they all had absolutely no problem with out of state sales, and immediate sales. One of the five hinted that prices were "market," and by that I took him to mean higher than MSRP. The other four were right at MSRP and then -$500 for a cash deal with that current rebate. None hinted at lower than MSRP, which is understandable. Some had stock, some didn't but would have in just days.

    It is early in the game, and the market situation will build more flexibility with time. I want one now, but then there's absolutely nothing wrong with my Gen3 except it is dropping in value the longer I wait.
     
  3. Jayy52

    Jayy52 Junior Member

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    Great information guys. I agree with everyone's sentiments about Dianne, while she may be respected and always mentioned in these forums. It seems either she rather not bother with most people unless you are the ideal customer, personally I have not received any response.

    Meanwhile, I have finally secured a " deal " @ MSRP after speaking with a dealer in La Crescenta. After going thru several dealers, it seems many are not sure how to price this car and most have had team meetings to discuss "market price" It seems certain dealerships translate lackluster 2016 prius sales (recall) and a new model into sustained demand that commands well over retail price. With 373,000 Tesla Model 3 reservations holding up future sales ... lets be honest.... the Prius Prime will be easily available to purchase in most areas ( some sooner than later of course)

    If anyone mentions "market price" they are simply being ridiculous and trying to prey on early adopters based on false demand. I mean really guys.... if this car were in such demand... we would have a much harder time even finding dealers with them in stock. Not one dealer yet has told me that they have sold all of their stock. Most simply like to insist the Prime you test drove is gonna be sold to that lady over there by tomorrow most likely... only to get a call later asking if you are still interested.
     
  4. DianneWhitmire

    DianneWhitmire High PRIUStess

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    Guys, I have a few things to add.

    With the vast amount of PlugIns I have sold over the years, as well as just regular Prii and Rav4 EV models, I have folks coming off lease returns weekly who are poised to replace their cars. They need HOV access, or just want the $4500 tax credit and the $1500 CVRP monies for CA before the calendar year ends.

    I have to be responsible to those local to me in Southern California / Northern CA first. I could have sold every single car I have been allocated so far to someone in another state. Quick. BUT - that leaves my locals scrounging around for cars elsewhere and hearing about "market adjustments" and added dealer items blown out of proportion pricewise in the guise of being at fair market value.

    There is also the law. DMV and CA sales tax laws that are clear and concise. You do not live here but wish to drive the car away from my dealership as opposed to sending a transporter for it to take it from my door to your home? If you drive the car away, you pay CA baseline sales tax for the state, which is 7.5%.
    BOE (Board of Equalization in CA) form 447 is a statement pursuant to section 6247 of the CA sales tax and use tax law. We do form 448 if WE deliver the car to the border ourselves. I'm telling you, on a car with a few hundred profit in the deal, that won;t happen. The border of any other state connected to us is HOURS away.

    Good Example: you reside in Oregon, where there's no sales tax. I am - what - 1100 miles away? Oregon has 0 sales tax. It costs $750+ to ship a car from me to the Eugene area. Shipping is about distance. If you reside in Oregon, it makes ZERO sense to drive my car away from here and pay 7.5% sales tax on a $30,000 vehicle because transporter shipping for $750 is cheaper. Way cheaper. And, won't involve plane flight to get here.

    Next: if you reside out of state, it's complicated to use any form of financing at all. Why? Because once I take a lender's money, I am obligated by FEDERAL LAW to provide your lender with title. As a dealer, I received the money for the car. I have to guarantee your lender (or my lender) title.
    Well, how can I? If you do not live in CA, I am not titling your car - or registering it. I have to rely on YOU to do the docs right and make sure the state you live in does the title work RIGHT and your state's DMV sends the title to the right lender, the right address, etc. If the lender is Toyota, my dealership agreement states I have to do this OR they will simply take the money back from us since we do things with TFS electronically. This means there's a chance that if you mess up at DMV or someone messes up at your DMV and they send the title to you, TFS will not care. They will simply suck that money back from us and close the car loan. To the dealership, it's not worth the risk. I sell 1800+ cars annually and boy have I seen everything. And, been on the unpleasant end of a few different CU's and banks wondering where their title is. All I am able to do is point them towards their own customer and pray it doesn't escalate worse even tho it has. And, God help us if your lender's in Texas because their lending banks are very hard to work with. Very hard.

    Anyway... there's so much hassle surrounding an out of state sale on all models, and very little plus side to it. I will do it when it makes sense. Right now, on Prime, it doesn't unless I run across a situation where it does. Every single decision is based on circumstance. If I said NO, it's for very good reason.
     
    DonDNH, CTorPrius? and bisco like this.
  5. Jan Treur

    Jan Treur Active Member

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    New official price announcement in the Netherlands: 38.000 euro and more. That's 4.000 euro higher than the previous announcement which was withdrawn. Such a high price is rather disappointing, I am jealous on the US situation (not in all respects...).

    As an alternative I am now considering the Hyundai Ioniq, which is already available here as a BEV version with 28 kWh battery and 280 km range for 33.000 euro all in; see Hyundai IONIQ Electric | Hyundai Nederland. It has the same size as the Prius, and has 5 seats, and is around 6.000 euro cheaper. The battery is heated during the cold season to avoid too much of a winterdip in the range. From the internet I get the impression that Hyundai is also evaluated as a reliable brand.
     
  6. avid

    avid New Member

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    Green Car Reports just had an article about the Ioniq and said that shockingly it will only have a 110 mile (177km) range on introduction. The high mileage version won't be available till 2018.
     
  7. Jan Treur

    Jan Treur Active Member

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    Yes, the information seems a bit incoherent. I just tried to calculate a 280 km range out of a 28 kWh battery, and I found that this is not realistic. I think for now it is safe to assume the 177 km range indeed, and wait till we see what size the battery of the 2018 version will have, and what price it gets. For me the end of 2017 would be the best time for a next step, so I can still wait for one year.
     
  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Wow, that's a bummer. Why would they do that? Was there any addition equipment made standard?
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The 280km/174 mile range is likely from the very easy going NEDC cycle. It is the same posted on the UK site.
    The latest reported EPA rating is 125 mile.
     
  10. civicdriver06

    civicdriver06 Active Member

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    I wouldn't worry so much if I were you .
    Soon Hyundai will announce the price for their Plug-in and I am guessing it will be significantly lower than 37.000 € which is about the base price for Prius Prime in Germany .
    I don't expect Hyundai Ioniq Plug-in to be far more expensive then their Ioniq EV and that will be around 33.000 € !
    Toyota won't be able to hold on to those prices if they want to actually sell the vehicle !
    Remember when Hyundai announced the price for the Ioniq Hybrid ?
    Toyota immediately reacted with a 3000 € Hybrid rebate !
    Of course the Prius is still a bit more than the Ioniq,but after all the Prius is the better car !
    I was looking forward to the solar version,but as for now there are too many tradeoffs if you opt for that !
    No HUD
    No parking sensors
    No RCTA
    No ICS
    No self parking

    I guess it's because of the weight of that extra battery what comes with the solar roof, but on the other hand what possibly can a HUD and parking sensors weigh to hurt fuel economy?
     
    #170 civicdriver06, Nov 18, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  11. Jan Treur

    Jan Treur Active Member

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    I asked my closest Hyundai dealer, and they also say that in real life you will not get the 280 km, but 200 km (125 mile) is well doable, according to what they tested by themselves. A strange thing is that he suggested that the battery is then used for 100%, without margins of say 10% around "full" and "empty". Can that be true? On the other hand, to get 200 km out of 28 kWh you need an efficiency of 7.1 km/kWh, which seems realistic; I also get that with my PiP in EV. But I cannot imagine to get 200 km if you only use 80% of the battery. The efficiency should be 8.9 km/kWh then, which is very high. In the documentation they indicate efficiency 11.5 kWh/100 km, which is 8.7 km/kWh.
     
  12. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Even 80% usable charge is very in conservative. PiP is about 67% if we include the HV portion of the battery (18-85% SOC), Prime will be around 70% in my opinion.
     
  13. Jan Treur

    Jan Treur Active Member

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    Yes, that's right, I just try to connect the two different sides, and even assuming 80% usable part of the battery this implies a rather high efficiency; I don't know whether that 8.9 or 8.7 km/kWh is plausible.
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The EPA is reporting 25kWh/100 mi. If I got the math right that is 6.4km/kWh.



    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Electric




    The range is 124 miles, which leaves some buffer in the battery.
     
  15. Jan Treur

    Jan Treur Active Member

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    Yes, the 6.4 km/kWh is correct. Multiplied by 28 kWh 100% charge gives you 180 km or 112 mile. So a range of 124 miles needs even more than 100% charge, no buffer.

    These numbers don't behave well, whereas they come from the same EPA source, so you would expect them to be consistent.
     
  16. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    According to EPA:
    33.7 kWh/gal / 136 mile/gal(e) * 124 miles equals 30.73 kWh from wall. Assuming 15% losses gives ~26 kWh usable charge in the battery.
    What is the US Ioniq battery size?
    Added.
    Assuming it is the same battery US/EU could it be that Hyundai is only advertising the 'usable capacity' and not the full battery capacity?
     
    #176 giora, Nov 18, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  17. Jan Treur

    Jan Treur Active Member

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    Today I went to the Hyundai dealer. Before I went I had calculated that when I could upgrade from my almost 4 years old PiP to a new Ioniq Electric by paying €15.000, it would financially be even. One element is that I overproduce about 2000 kWh solar energy per year for which I get paid around 10 eurocent per kWh. If I can use that for driving, I drive for 10/7 = 1.4 ct/km. Another element is that 99% of my driving is less than 100 km (or 62 miles), so going for a car with an EV range of several hundreds of km's is overkill for my situation, and quite inefficient in production and carrying an overweight battery. Therefore the EV range of the Ioniq EV is quite OK for my situation, even if it is not 280 km or not 200 km.

    At the dealership and during the test driving I became convinced that, given my way of driving, I can achieve an EV range of 200 km or more with this car. And in the negotiations afterwards indeed I managed to get the deal for €15.000. So within a few months I will not be a Prius driver anymore...
     
  18. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    For your driving habits as described - it seems a good decision:)
     
  19. CTorPrius?

    CTorPrius? Member

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    We know the prices in the US, but how about in Canada or UK or Australia, etc. Does anyone know?
     
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  20. Veliksam

    Veliksam Member

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    Let's just say it's much more expensive everywhere else.

    Us people in the U.S.A. get to enjoy the lowest vehicle pricing in the world.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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