Possible solution to Dr. Berman's Iranian Nuclear concerns

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Nov 5 2007, 07:25 PM) [snapback]535249[/snapback]</div>

Palestinian-American writer and standup comedian Ray Hanania was born to a Christian family; his father is from Jerusalem, his mother from Bethlehem. His wife and son are Jewish.

Here are some excerpts from an opinion piece he wrote a couple of years ago:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Nov 6 2007, 03:43 AM) [snapback]535391[/snapback]</div>

Diplomatic means must first be exhausted. The United States should not act unilaterally. Force should only be used as an absolute last resort and only after there is concrete irrefutable proof that Iran is about to possess atomic weapons.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Nov 6 2007, 06:49 AM) [snapback]535472[/snapback]</div>

No issue with WWII; but my recollection was that the U.S. declared war on Germany after the torpedoing of the Lusitania, which was not a U.S. flagged vessel. Germany had placed ads in U.S. papers warning against traveling on ships of the allied nations well before the Lusitania was torpedoed.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Nov 6 2007, 01:02 PM) [snapback]535545[/snapback]</div>

Why does not iran just open its program to complete inspection?

And you hold the world and the US to a very high standard - "concrete proof" - i would posit that the only concrete proof possible is the explosion of their test device - then its too late. Tell me, who besides the US can act if action is required?

Using your criteria Iran will be a nuclear power, just a matter of when - then it will be too late for all of us. I would favor a more lenient criteria for the world to act - seeing how france and germany and england are already behind us here as are numerous other countries. i would not give a terror supporting state that denies the occurrence of the holocaust......etc, etc,..... the slightest chance of possessing nukes.

what are your thoughts on the Israeli raid of sept 6 this year against syria - of NoKo and probable iranian involvement in that facility?? was israel wrong to act? why did the iaea not know about this program? if there was iranian involvement with this facility - what would you do?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Nov 6 2007, 10:14 AM) [snapback]535603[/snapback]</div>

If you want to debate me, do not engage in demagoguery.

Where did I state that Iran should not have its nuclear facilities open to complete inspection?

Concrete proof is required in order that we do not repeat the mistake of going into Iraq based upon doctored and manufactured intelligence and without having wide international support. The coalition of the bribed and coerced does not cut it in my book.

The quagmire in Iraq will seem like a child's play compared to what will take place in Iran should we be foolish enough to use force there without first having international consensus and backing.

Since I am not privy to Israeli and U.S. classified intelligence, I am not able to answer most of your questions concerning the Israeli raid on Syria. Obviously, the Syrians have a guilty conscious, otherwise they would have protested the bombing a lot more loudly and probably would have tried to retaliate.

However, do you really think that the Iranian nuclear facilities can be knocked out in one neat air raid? That is the flawed parallel that you seem to be drawing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Nov 6 2007, 03:13 PM) [snapback]535630[/snapback]</div>

If iran does not give access to complete inspection is that enough for you to allow action to be taken by the US/the free world?

What if iran was involved in the syrian nuclear facility??

 

Let me repeat, if you want to debate me, do not engage in demagoguery.

It was nice playing with you.

The game is over.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Nov 6 2007, 11:43 AM) [snapback]535579[/snapback]</div>

The Lusitania was sunk in 1915, and Wilson did not go to war - in fact, he avoided it almost at all costs during his first term. He ran for reelection in 1916 on the platform of isolationism - ie keeping us out of the war. In 1917, Wilson released a telegram from Germany to Mexico to the press, in order to gain public support for the war. Essentially, the telegram suggested that Mexico, Germany and Japan form an alliance against America in order to keep us isolated and separate from our European allies. It was only after this telegram, and the sinking of 7 US flag merchant ships by German submarines did Wilson call for war, to which Congress declared on April 6, 1917.

The 100+ American passengers on the Lusitania are widely regarded as America's first casualties in the war. Given the 2 years separation and the numerous other attacks on US citizens and US merchant ships, as well as the evidence of an attempted alliance against us, I don't think you can say that the Lusitania was the reason we entered the war.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Nov 6 2007, 03:22 PM) [snapback]535635[/snapback]</div>

No demagoguery - just a question you do not want to answer for very obvious reasons.

The game is over - the only question is will good or evil triumph. The operating parameter of this struggle will be defined by those of the free world who will or will not give their leaders the benefit of the doubt while engaging an enemy with known evil intentions. Sad to think that some of us will give more benefit of the doubt to evil doers than to our own leaders and become potentially enablers of greater harm.

mind you, nothing here is directed at you - just a statement in general.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Nov 6 2007, 03:26 PM) [snapback]535673[/snapback]</div>

What are the obvious reasons he doesn't want to answer your questions? Do you believe he sides with EVIL? Do you believe that those who do not want to bomb Iran unless they bow down to your demands side with EVIL?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Nov 6 2007, 04:37 PM) [snapback]535682[/snapback]</div>

i will leave the obvious reasons for those that see them.

i did not attack him - i was making a general statement like i said in that post. yes i do think iran is evil and the people running it are - do you?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Nov 6 2007, 01:14 PM) [snapback]535603[/snapback]</div>

Why doesn't Israel open it complete nuclear program for inspection?
Why doesn't the UK open its complete nuclear program for inspection?
Why doesn't the US open its complete nuclear program for inspection?
Why doesn't France open it complete nuclear program for inspection?
Why doesn't Germany open its complete nuclear program for inspection?
Why doesn't Russia open its complete nuclear program for inspection?
Why doesn't China open its complete nuclear program for inspection?
Why doesn't the US demand that India sign the NPT and submit to IAEA inspections?
Why is the US actively helping India develop their nuclear programs even though they refuse to sign the NPT and submit to IAEA inspections?

Why do you think that US or any other country has the right to declare Iran unfit to develop and possess nuclear weapons?
Why can the UK, France, Germany, China, Russia, Israel and the US be "trusted" to posses nuclear weapons, but India, Pakistan, North Korea, and Iran are not to be trusted?
Why hasn't the US or any of the other nuclear signatories of the NPT implemented the second pillar of the NPT? (Disarmament)
Why is the US instead actively developing small-scale nuclear weapons that could used in future conflicts against specific targets? (Nuclear bunker-busters)

Your not the only one with lots of questions Dr. B.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Nov 6 2007, 10:02 AM) [snapback]535545[/snapback]</div>

He's a very funny guy, in a thoughtful way you don't see too much of anymore. I enjoyed that.

I keep hoping the Iranians are really more like the Soviets, and that national pride and concern for their own people will allow the deterrence effect to keep them from lobbing nukes at others. They are a more stable government than what could pop up in Pakistan now, or what was in Afghanistan with the Taliban.

We won't be able to stop them from getting nuclear weapons, so deterrence is the only hope.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Nov 6 2007, 07:39 PM) [snapback]535926[/snapback]</div>

This is an easy one. Iran has a long documented history as a state that sponsors and supports terrorism. The civilized world is as opposed to North Korea having nuclear weapons as it is to Iran's. None of the other examples which you cited have a history of state sponsored terrorism.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Nov 7 2007, 12:27 AM) [snapback]535946[/snapback]</div>

Yes they can be stopped.

Let them try to build a nuke after all or most of their nuclear facilities are destroyed.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Nov 6 2007, 11:39 PM) [snapback]535926[/snapback]</div>

All good questions. for the most part the countries listed have been responsible adults in charge of their deadly toys. I would love a nuclear free world. Until then, i suggest we keep nut jobs, holocaust deniers, supporters of terrorism, those who call for the destruction of countries away from the nukes - what say you?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Nov 7 2007, 03:43 AM) [snapback]536061[/snapback]</div>

That statement assumes that we know the location of all of their facilities. Based on our most recent track record on Iraqi WMD, I am rather doubtful in regard to something that would be as closely guarded as that kind of information.

dicky and dubya have collectively made asses out of us already. Once is enough from this crew; thank you very much, but no thanks for a second go around.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Nov 7 2007, 07:57 AM) [snapback]536078[/snapback]</div>

1. Israel knew of the secret facility in syria loaded with NoKo's and possibly Iranians - destroyed Sept 6, 2007
1a. If the US does not know where they are, give Israel a call or possibly the people that built them have let us know about their locations .... tough to build underground facilities and keep that a secret.
2. you dont need to destroy all of them
3. your statement makes me believe that you think the iranians are building nuclear bombs or want to - you think the world should let them - make no attempt at stopping them.
4. do you believe iran is a force of good or a force for evil?... would you trust them with nuclear weapons????

 

Same boring old rhetoric from you, Berman... not even worth pointing out all the holes and flaws in your list.

 

just wanted to throw this tidbit out there for you, Berman... In threads like these, you're always the first to claim that Iran is evil and that since they support terrorists, etc we should take them out. But in other threads, you're also one of the first to agree that we support terrorists... what an interesting dichotomy.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Nov 7 2007, 10:11 AM) [snapback]536159[/snapback]</div>

Exactly. Too bad Moses did not turn right on his way out of Egypt Amazing bad luck to have the combo we have today in the Middle East - fools gold and fools all mixed together.
[/b][/quote]


Tell me, if the US public at large is such a big support of terrorism, are we a force for good or evil in the world?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Nov 7 2007, 12:03 PM) [snapback]536187[/snapback]</div>

lets try this...

The US by in large and its people have been and continue to be a force for good in the world.

I believe Iran represents evil in this world. Again, do you think Iran is a force for good or evil in this world?

Simple. Yes or no? Good or Evil?

 

So you think that 300 million people supporting terrorists makes a country a force for good. glad we cleared that up :lol: