1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Post-Prolong Charger Bad MPG

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Trab, Feb 25, 2018.

  1. Trab

    Trab New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    13
    23
    0
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Hey all,

    I recently bought a Gen II (2006) Prius w/ 211k for next to nothing because it had a bad cell and was throwing the P0A80 code. It ran and drove; the battery indicator would show full green bars to no bars at all.

    Fast forward to this past week, I pulled the battery and tested cell voltage and resistance. All were good except one. I replaced it w/ a refurbished one (which tested well). It was ~0.1 volts off from the majority of the other cells.
    After putting it back in, I hooked up the Prolong charger and checked on the battery every once and awhile.
    At 9PM I was at 238 volts and by 1AM I was up to 244 volts.
    As per the Prolong documentation (4-12 hours), I let it sit overnight and when I checked it this morning, it was at 240 volts (which I thought was strange).

    I drove it about 120 miles today (conservatively driven on relatively flat ground) and only managed to get 35.2 MPG. In my other Gen II w/ similar miles, I never got under 40 MPG.
    The battery indicator consistently stayed within the middle blue bars (+/- 3).
    The tire air pressure is good & the oil and air filter has been recently changed.
    My Prolong kit also came with the auto-discharger. I do not have 3-4 days to complete all cycles now but I will in the coming months.

    I know the Prolong owner is on this forum but I am unsure how to tag him.
    As far as I know, after the balancing phase, the MPG should not be this low. Any ideas?

    TL&DR
    2006 Prius. Replaced bad cell and used Prolong charger to charge/balance. Getting 35 MPG.
    Why so low?

     
    kenoarto likes this.
  2. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,251
    15,477
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Welcome to Prius Chat (y).

    @jeff652 is who you are looking for.

    If all you did wa top end balance the battery, you’ve only completed part of the process. The discharging cycles help get all the modules to work together. Now that you have a foreign cell in there (and voltage is only one measure of the module), you’ll want to have it play well with the others;).

    How did the battery perform on your test drive:

    • did the bars bounce around?
    • Were the bars staying at the top end of the range?
    • Did you disconnect the 12v battery?
    • How many miles have you put in your project Prius?
    Keep us posted(y).
     
    kenoarto likes this.
  3. Trab

    Trab New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    13
    23
    0
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Thank you! Excited to be here. As they say- longtime lurker, first-time poster.
    • The bars stayed pretty consistent and did not bounce around (all in the blue)
    • They stayed just below to just above the middle
    • I did disconnect the 12v battery during charging (ground wire)
    • I'm unsure if you mean how many miles are on it or how many I drove for the test today (perhaps I'm missing something). It's 211k and 120 miles respectively.
    Thanks for your prompt reply :)
     
    #3 Trab, Feb 25, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  4. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,251
    15,477
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Disconnecting the 12v requires the car to “relearn” its settings;).

    I wouldn’t jump to too many conclusions yet, but know you should perform several discharge cycles to get all modules in line now that they will be working together for you :).

    I was asking for your reference point with this particular Prius. Have you had it for 1,5,20 or 50 k miles? This help also understand what the bar is;).

    Hope that helps(y).
     
  5. Trab

    Trab New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    13
    23
    0
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Oh, I gotcha!
    My reference point was what the previous owner told me and (more anecdotally) my other Prius of approx same year/mileage.
    The P.O. has had it since it was new.

    I did figure that was the answer (discharge cycles). I'm currently finishing up my undergrad thesis and have little to no time to be out of a vehicle.
    Since I've balanced (but have yet to do the discharge cycles), can I safely drive it for another month or so? I think I should be able to get to it during spring break but don't want to risk messing up more cells.

    And you most certainly did help! ;)
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  6. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,251
    15,477
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Cell replacement without proper integration can lead to mixed results :(.

    But top end balancing is worth something (as you have just found out):).

    While finding time to work on your Prius might seem like a challenge, being without a mode of transportation might swing the balance toward the maintenance side;).

    I’ve helped another member here with swapping out 2 modules and he did 2 reconditioning cycles (1 to 134 and 1 to 84 volts) before topping up with a final charge cycle. His Prius is going strong now :).

    Good luck with your thesis and project(y).
     
    srellim234 likes this.
  7. Trab

    Trab New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    13
    23
    0
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Haha when you put it like that, maintenance sounds like a better option for sure.
    I can probably swing getting my partner to drive me around for a couple days.
    I'll just go ahead and do the 134/84/17 volts cycle.
    Oh, I know that Prolong states that the charger should never be on for more than 48 hours.
    If I'm on a charge cycle and happen to leave it 12-14 hours after it's plateaued, can any harm be done?
    I can certainly do the cycles but do not have time to constantly babysit.

    Thanks :)
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  8. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,251
    15,477
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Did you buy the deluxe reconditioning kit (the one with the Intelligent Discharger or no light bulbs)? If so, no babysitting requires;).

    I would just do the 134 and 84 volt reconditionings. Then see how it goes;).

    My bet is you’ll be up and running well just with that program:).

    Good luck(y).
     
    srellim234 likes this.
  9. Trab

    Trab New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    13
    23
    0
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Okay, perfect! Thank you so much for your help! I do indeed have the smartie discharger and I went ahead and started the first cycle (y)
    I wasn't so much worried about the discharger as I was the charger; I am afraid to leave it too long in the balancing phase (and if that fear is ill-founded, which I hope it is, please let me know) :)

    I'll go ahead and do the first two cycles as per your suggestion and keep you updated ;)
     
    srellim234 and Raytheeagle like this.
  10. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,251
    15,477
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    What I do is periodically check to see what the charge level is. I also take a pic of the starting of each step, which also acts as a time reference ;).

    Good luck and keep us posted (y).
     
    Prodigyplace and Trab like this.
  11. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,696
    11,317
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Welcome! I lurked a while too before joining.

    After charging, be sure to let the system rest before driving. One user here got impatient and had a module go bad to remind him of his impatience. :eek:
     
    Trab, srellim234 and kenoarto like this.
  12. srellim234

    srellim234 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    1,193
    1,681
    0
    Location:
    Laughlin, Nevada
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    The drop back to 240 volts is not strange at all. That's just a sign the cells are/were very unbalanced. The system charges up, then bleeds off the heat from the 244 volt full cells while it continues to charge the lower cell (in this case at 240 when you looked). Your system wasn't done charging; it was still balancing.

    I made the same mistake with my first total maintenance. I cut off the charger between 24 and 30 hours on the charge cycles when I looked at the gauge every few hours and believed it was done based on the volt numbers I saw. Now I believe the system was dropping between my "looks" and building before I looked again. This last time around I went 40 hours on the charges no matter what the number on the screen read. The system finished 2 volts higher than the first reconditioning and two months later the SOC is still a lot stronger and steadier than that first time.

    EDIT: FYI, I did "babysit" the last charge cycle and it took over 8 hours for the system to tick up that last volt.

    This doesn't necessarily address your MPG problem but you might want to go at least 40 hours on your charges next time. After that, if the battery is showing more strength you can cut the time down.
     
    WilDavis likes this.
  13. srellim234

    srellim234 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    1,193
    1,681
    0
    Location:
    Laughlin, Nevada
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    BTW, Trab, what kind of tires are on it? Does it have LRR tires? Also, how long was the car idle with a bad battery cell before you bought it? The 12v might be old or weak and that affects the mileage too.

    You may have multiple smaller issues unrelated to the battery that are reducing the mileage.
     
  14. Trab

    Trab New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    13
    23
    0
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I don't think I have LRR tires but I think (if I did it correctly) I've attached a pic of them.
    Are there any LRR tires that you would recommend? We do get ice/snow/floods where I'm at in Texas so I'm looking for something that will hold up in those conditions.

    Car was idle approximately two months before purchase/when the cell was bad.
    The 12v battery is an Optima Yellow-Top that was put in about 5 months ago. (I did forget to charge it while I charged the HV battery but I plan to do so on the next charge cycle).

    And in regards to your first post: okay! It's great to hear someone who has had a similar experience.
    Unfortunately, I had to charge it back up last night b/c I had a meeting this morning (that I forgot about) and couldn't miss/get a ride.
    I'm planning on starting the cycle on Wed. now. Do you think two cycles with two 40-hour charge sessions will be sufficient or should I do the third one as well?
    On the last cycle (I'm assuming 3rd) was it necessary to babysit? Hypothetically, if I just let it charge for 40 hours and called it good, would that cause any issues? Since it bleeds off the heat, I don't see why not but I'd love to get your opinion.

    Additional question: did you see any change in MPG after your first (and also second) set of cycles?

    Hehe yeah, I read his original post when I was lurking. I will most certainly try and avoid that and thanks for the heads up![/MEDIA]
     

    Attached Files:

    #14 Trab, Feb 26, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
    DLC82SV, srellim234 and Prodigyplace like this.
  15. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,696
    11,317
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    The tires are Michelin mud & snow but I could not see any model.
     
  16. Trab

    Trab New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    13
    23
    0
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Got the previous post edited. Still learning the proper way to insert links apparently.
     
  17. Trab

    Trab New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    13
    23
    0
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Just checked again. They are "Defender XT"s.
     
    Prodigyplace likes this.
  18. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,696
    11,317
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I think @bisco likes them IIRC.
     
    Trab likes this.
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,991
    49,089
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    energy savers a/s. defenders are costly mpg eaters. but the same tires before and after reconditioning takes them out of the equation.
     
    Prodigyplace likes this.
  20. Trab

    Trab New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    13
    23
    0
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Totally. I started doing some digging and came across those as well. My current tires still have quite a bit of tread left so I cant justify spending $480 on new tires for an increase in MPG until these are worn down.
    Those will be what I go to after.