PP 2017 battery degradation?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Rieuk, Jan 4, 2020.

  1. Rieuk

    Rieuk Member

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    So I've noticed that my recent charges have only been reported as 5.5kWh at the wall (which means probably the car is getting a bit less than that if accounting for transmission losses). What are all y'all's battery capacity these days for those of you who have 2017 PPs? I have noticed about a 5 mile decrease in projected range on my car and it happened in quite a short time interval (almost like a step change in predicted range).
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    there usually is some in the firs year or two. but other factors may be involved, and the projected range is not always accurate, but your charging kw hours are.

    how many miles on her? what percent ev do you drive of those miles?
     
  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    These videos 2 years apart.... the same drive under very similar conditions... don't show any degradation:





    That goes a long way to confirm my 2017 Prius Prime is retaining most of potential. Winter EV range is similar, an obvious reduction due to heater use, but running in roughly the same location consistently despite it now being the 3rd cold season.
     
    #3 john1701a, Jan 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
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  4. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    2017 PRIME 40K miles, ~6.5kWh for a full charge from the wall measured by Kill-a-Watt meter with L1. I have never had less than 6kWh for a full charge. Currently showing 47.5 EV miles on GOM.

    Screenshot 2020-01-04 at 10.29.45 AM.png
     
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  5. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    My average is overwhelmingly less, about 5.8 kWh.

    Looking through my entire 2.5 year history for JuiceBox, I only found 16 entries over 6.

    Here's my highest at home ever...
    Screenshot_20200104-105828_EV%20JuiceNet.jpg
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    does the o/p need a toyota diagnosis then?

    should be under warranty
     
  7. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    For me, it varies a bit, but yes, ~5.5KWh is about what I’ve been seeing on my 2017, for the past year or so. 9ish months after I bought it (admittedly, I don’t remember exactly the time frame off the top of my head), it plummeted drastically, but has recovered partly since then.

    I first saw it drop after a span of months in which I was charging it up at the local mall in the evenings (quasi-free there) and leaving it charged overnight. I can’t say for sure, but it’s likely that leaving it charged overnight for months is what did it. I was discharging it going to work, and recharging it at work as usual, but instead of charging it right before leaving in the morning, I got into the habit of charging it up the night before and leaving it charged overnight.

    I think the computer started fearing for battery life and increased the charging “top margin.” That is, decided to charge the battery less full, to reduce charging stress on the battery. It dropped to 25 miles on the Guesstimatron (GoM), and only charged about 4.5-4.8KWh into the battery for 6ish months.

    However, after several months of mostly scheduled charging right before leaving for work, it moved back up to 5.2-5.5KWh, or 27-29 on the Guesstimatron.
     
    #7 mr88cet, Jan 4, 2020
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  8. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yeah, I noticed that. Some of the difference between your number and mine is certainly attributable to L2 you use vs L1 of mine. I have measured at wall usage using a Kill-a-watt meter, so there is the possible inaccuracy of the measurements on this device. Still, mine and other reports on this forum seem to agree that a full charge takes anywhere from 6.0-6.7kWh.
     
  9. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That's too vague to establish a pattern or even an average. I see the same 5.8'ish from ChargePoint.
     
  10. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Just doing a cursory search on this topic, I found the following quotes. I don't have any stats on others reporting, so it is not conclusive. I certainly have read a few including you claiming a full charge taking less than 6kWh, but my impression is that they are the minority. The general consensus is that 6.1-6.3kWh by L2, and 6.3-6.8kWh by L1.

     
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  11. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Knowing location is vital, since temperature has a big influence. I suspect all those are from warmer regions.

    Notice the pattern of longer EV range grin those who live in the South?
     
  12. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Are you claiming PRIME in warmer regions takes more charge for a full battery? If so, I certainly do not live in a warmer region by any standard. Our average August high temp is 71F and the average high temp in January is 20F.

    Here is more "scientific" observation on how much kWh for a full charge on my PRIME. Unfortunately, I did not take a daily record of Kill-a-watt meter in most of the second year, but as you can see, the average has been always above 6kWh.

    Screenshot 2020-01-04 at 2.52.31 PM.png
     
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  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Nope.

    I'm pointing out the observation that warmer utilizes more electricity. That operation offers more potential... hence the greater EV range.

    Also, keep in mind that some of the recharge quoted values likely include battery conditioning.
     
  14. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    That may be true. I can't comment on what others have reported. What I know from my experience is that, for my PRIME, a full charge has been always above 6kWh, summer or winter no difference. I don't use preconditioning on my car and it averages out to be ~6.5kWh for a full charge over the last 2.5 years.
     
    #14 Salamander_King, Jan 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  15. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

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    Mine virtually always takes 6.4 kWh for a full charge after it's fully depleted, occasionally 6.5 kWh. However, the very first charge took 7.003 kWh, but that was because it came with the factory charge, not the vehicle's automatic charge set point.
     
  16. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Some unidentifed element is at play. My wife's data very closely matches mine, despite having different driving, her own Prime, and her own level-2 charger.
     
  17. Blue-Adept

    Blue-Adept Active Member

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    Are you charging at level 1 or level 2?
     
  18. Blue-Adept

    Blue-Adept Active Member

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    I have data going back to March 2018. Level 2 Juice Box. Very rairly go over 6 KWH.

    Maybe mine is not normal.
     
  19. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    OK, here are two JuiceBox L2 charger cases with regularly less than 6kWh for a full charge on PRIME.

    John, is your wife's L2 also a JuiceBox?
     
  20. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Yes. And this is her most recent data, a full recharge...



    Screenshot_20200104-165953_EV%20JuiceNet.jpg
     
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