PP 2017 battery degradation?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Rieuk, Jan 4, 2020.

  1. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Ignore what I said...
     
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    No, your original comment was about PHEVs having better resale because they have an engine and work as a plain hybrid. Not sure what exactly you were counting as an "early-generation EV", but the fast depreciation on many of them was due to incentives on new. The only EV that seems to be holding value isn't a PHEV; 5 year old(early gen) Model S have a depreciation rate similar to Toyota hybrids, The Hybrids and Electric Vehicles With the Lowest Depreciation. It seems too early to call if a PHEV will hold value better because of the engine.

    Used PiP list for about the same price as higher trim Prii of the same age and mileage. The original MSRP difference was about equal to the incentives available at the time. Toyota plug ins sold in the next two years will very likely get the full federal credit, and then it it will be another year of reduced credit value. Then there is state incentives and manufacturing incentives to compensate for those.The effect of incentives on their plug ins resale value isn't going away soon.

    Really? Dealers didn't want to deal with plug ins because of the limited scope of incentives, and not because they were a risk to their main income stream, the service department?
     
  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    You know. It's the entire "EV Market" up until December 31, 2019. Not a single vehicle with a plug competed directly with traditional choices yet, because the qualification had not been met. Its price must not be subsidized. To deliver sustainable profit, it must be able to stand on its own. Looking at how that is achieved, we see 2 obvious examples:

    Tesla is striving to achieve high-volume sales without the generous $7,500 tax-credit and an early-adopter audience now faced with many choices. The gigafactory efforts combined with migration to Model 3 are big steps toward the goal, but it has only been 11 days since phaseout of the federal subsidy. Delivery of enough profit to everything necessary to sustain the business remains a challenge, without any clear path or timeline. Mainstream buyers are far more difficult to appeal to than early-adopters.

    Toyota is demonstrating they are already well on their way to high-volume profitable sales with a plug, looking well past their phaseout of tax-credits. Evidence of that is undeniable. Their largest production plant in the world (over 9 million square-feet, with 8,000 full-time employees) has added RAV4 hybrid to what they produce. It's in Georgetown, Kentucky, making it an ideal location to capitalize on PHEV opportunity. Adding a plug to the hybrid is an option showroom-shoppers will naturally be drawn to.

    Both examples look beyond the "early" activity in the market still playing out, one that doesn't even adhere to a standard approach for charging yet... or with regard to the topic at hand, have any standard approach to measure or provide warranty for battery degradation.
     
  4. Rieuk

    Rieuk Member

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    Fair enough. I guess I'll see what happens over time. Is there a way to see the power consumption by the battery from the car dashboard, though?
     
  5. Chazman62

    Chazman62 Member

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    I'm confused...
    The battery consumes power?
     
  6. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    i'm certain the inquiry means, "is there is a way to observe consumption of battery power energy"
    .
     
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  7. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I'm not sure what you're asking either, but @hill's suggestion sounds reasonable. If so, you can set the MID to show m/kWh. That will give you a bar for every mile.
    Screen Shot 2020-01-15 at 7.54.06 AM.png

    Or you can choose to show the m/kWh for whatever trip meter you have selected.
    Screen Shot 2020-01-15 at 7.56.30 AM.png

    But there is no instantaneous indication of m/kWh like there is for mpg. I suggest reading up on the instrument cluster section of the owner's manual. It has a TON of good info.
     
  8. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Actually, there is... it's just a matter of stumbling across the many options available.

     
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  9. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Duh!!! I feel like a real bonehead now. I use that all the time, but it just slipped my mind as I was writing. Thanks, John. Maybe I need a nap. :oops::sleep:
     
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  10. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    A yawn is a silent scream for coffee.

     
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  11. Rieuk

    Rieuk Member

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    Hey, thanks for this! That's handy to know. I guess what I am really after is a straight number of kWh dispensed by the battery for a given trip. I suppose one could just multiply miles/kWh by the number of miles in the current trip.

    What would be better, though is if the car can display how many kWh was replenished after a given charge session. I don't want to rely on the reading at the wall (if I'm lucky enough to even have one).
     
  12. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    If you use OBDII adaptor and android phone app Hybrid Assistant, you can get total kWh of battery energy used for a trip.

    Screenshot 2020-01-16 at 8.09.27 PM.png
     
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  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The kWh from the outlet isn't going to be the same as the kWh from the battery, because of charging and conversion inefficiencies. If you want the number to track how much electricity you are using from the grid, you want the the amount from the outlet. The EPA MPGe number is figured from the outlet.
     
  14. Rieuk

    Rieuk Member

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    My goal is to track the battery degradation over time. For this I want to eliminate the variability in transmission efficiencies from the wall (this varies because I don't always charge in the same place). So I don't want the wall reading, I want the reading from the car itself.
     
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  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    tech stream?
     
  16. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    For those of you yearning for data from more aged plug-in hybrid batteries, here's a video from of Prius PHV after 4.5 years of use (just under 81,000 miles)...

    13.9 miles of EV after all those years/miles from a vehicle with an 11-mile rating speaks for itself.

     
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  17. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Nice! My PiP had almost the same time and miles when I traded it in. If I just drove on the local 35mph streets with occasional stretches of 45, I could get about 14 miles. On my miserable high speed stop and go work commute ... not so much.
     
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