1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Preliminary 2010 mph vs MPG

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by bwilson4web, May 29, 2009.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,228
    15,442
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus


    I picked up our 2010 Prius from the dealer and here is my initial data:

    speed MPG
    1 50 65.3
    2 60 61.2
    3 65 54.8
    4 70 52.5
    5 75 49.4


    [​IMG]

    Due to traffic, these were fairly short runs, 5.2-14.3 miles, 82-86 F, wind from West-North-West, ~15 mph, steady, Shell 89 octane E10. As I get time to refine and repeat my runs, I'll expand the speed range and accuracy. Raw data:

    direction MPG speed distance
    1 E 65.3 50 5.2
    2 N 58.3 60 8.1
    3 S 64.1 60 8.2
    4 N 55.3 65 7.9
    5 S 54.2 65 8.2
    6 E 57.1 70 14.3
    7 W 47.9 70 13.2
    8 E 51.6 75 10.5
    9 W 47.1 75 14.3


    To put things in perspective, I get 39 MPG with my NHW11, 2003, at 75 mph. The high speed performance is significantly improved. The lower speed is OK but not as good as expected. After I get a chance to audit the tire pressure, check alignment, and oil level, I'll repeat the tests. Note the higher temperature means these are somewhat 'optimistic' values.

    Vehicle observations:
    • steering felt like there was a little mechanical friction, not so 'figity neutral'
    • road tire noise a little louder than expected
    • seats are OK but a little padding would help
    • accelerator uses the plastic beam, is different from NHW20
    • No evidence of Eco mode having a cruise control effect
    • Speed indicates about +1 mph compared to GPS and tripmeter
    • Belkin FM modulator for iTouch worked but a lot of volume required

    Bob Wilson
     
    #1 bwilson4web, May 29, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
    10 people like this.
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,228
    15,442
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Later, my wife sent me out on another errand so I also ran up Brindley Mountain four times:

    mph MPG gal
    1 55 19.1 0.0681
    2 65 18.1 0.0718
    3 77 16.6 0.0783
    4 84 15.4 0.0844


    [​IMG]

    At 84 mph, the engine ran pretty much at max rpm, 5200. But it was too dark and I was too tired to make another high speed climb. Maybe Sunday morning I can try a run at 90 mph.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #2 bwilson4web, May 29, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  3. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    611
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    so much for that easy break in period!!

    hope you enjoy your new Pri Bob!!
     
  4. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    12,544
    2,123
    1
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Congrats! Besides these, I look forward to your informative posts in the future on the ZVW30.
    On a side note, any reason for using the above anymore? The aux in jack should work WAY better. I can tell you that from personal experience w/FM transmitters, tape adapters and aux in.
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,228
    15,442
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Well I had the adapter but I didn't have the cable needed for the AUX port. <grins>

    Honestly, I was more interested in getting the mileage runs. Audio comes later ... after I get my instrumentation in ...

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    4,089
    468
    0
    Location:
    Bahstahn
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    What kind of RPM range do you see at 60 mph steady-state, or have
    you not gotten the appropriate widgets installed yet?
    .
    It'll be interesting to see how many of the old Xgauges still
    work on the '10, if any.
    .
    _H*
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,228
    15,442
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Not yet. Heck, I did the high speed runs on the way home from the dealer. The hill climb was done between 10:00-11:00 PM. But I did survey the engine compartment and took photos that I'll post later. One impression, there sure is a lot of space between the engine and firewall. Those installing block heaters will probably find this a joy.

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. FireEngineer

    FireEngineer Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    1,247
    124
    0
    Location:
    SW-Side of Chicago, IL
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    According to Dan in Houston, none.

    Wayne
     
  9. FireEngineer

    FireEngineer Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    1,247
    124
    0
    Location:
    SW-Side of Chicago, IL
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Sounds great, I'll let everyone know by next week.

    Wayne
     
  10. fred garvin

    fred garvin New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    376
    56
    3
    Location:
    northern virginia
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    why the 89 gas and not 87?
     
  11. NYPrius1

    NYPrius1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2007
    1,181
    125
    0
    Location:
    Middletown, NY
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Bob,
    Thanks So Much For Sharing This Info!
     
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,228
    15,442
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    The dealer bought and filled the tank. But since everything is now E10, I have to go back and re-run my previous gas studies.

    Bob Wilson
     
  13. fred garvin

    fred garvin New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    376
    56
    3
    Location:
    northern virginia
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    thanks - that makes sense
     
  14. SureValla

    SureValla Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    590
    21
    15
    Location:
    Shelton, CT
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    III
    this is what id be interested in more then mph vs mpg, what the 3 modes do vs mpg, maybe pick a few speeds, low medium and high and try the same route 3 times on each mode
     
  15. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    2,760
    320
    3
    Location:
    Southern California
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    BobWilson, I'm glad to see that your second graph isn't linear. (laughing). When I saw that first graph that was linear, I started scratching my head. (drag force is parabolic) What's the R-squared value? I care a lot less about all of that though. I'm just glad to see that you are getting 50-60mpg!!! Awesome! With gasoline prices going back up, I have my eyes more and more on a new 2010 Prius. :)


    The new Prius doesn't come with a tachometer (rpm) ??? :eek:
     
  16. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    19,011
    4,080
    50
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA.
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I'm glad I'm not the only one who loves Bob's little graphs. :)
     
  17. donee

    donee New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    2,956
    197
    0
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Hi Rybold,

    Aerodyanmic power versus speed is cubic. Power for rolling resistance increases linearly with speed. Engine efficiency tends to peak and then fall off. The bigger the engine, the higher the power were the peak is, and in a Prius with the CVT, this means the higher the speed where the peak is. This stuff all combines to make some odd shaped curves.

    Bob,
    That 50 mph fuel economy looks a little low compared to a generation 2 Prius. What size tires on your '10? It should improve a bunch when the tires loosen up. Its still up in the air whether that bigger engine will take away that 53 mph SHM sweet spot, move the sweet spot higher in speed, but lower in mpg?

    Were your tests cruise-controlled? Or did you feather the accellerator pedal to get the best fuel economy for a sustained speed ?
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,228
    15,442
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    All test runs are cruise control speed regulated and I use my Garmin nuvi to calibrate the the speedometer and trip record average speed. My findings are speedometer indicates +1 mph but the trip meter average speed is right on.

    I don't want to project any performance until I get a chance to check the 'usual suspects.' I'm pretty sure the tires are "dealer standard" and I also want to check the alignment. I haven't really checked the oil level but the new engine has some pretty sophisticated oil management systems.

    Understand that my tests do everything possible to be reproducible and eliminate any human elements. I am testing the vehicle, not the driver. If my testing is accurate, anyone should be able, within the limits of local conditions, replicate the results. I need reproducible results so I can use these graphs year round to predict everything from trip costs to current vehicle health.

    Bob Wilson
     
  19. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,851
    16,089
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    So to get the same mpg at 70mph in my 05, I'd have to travel over 80mph in the '10? Nice.

    60+ mpg at 60mph is very encouraging. The speed limit on the highways here are mostly 100km/h with 80-90km/h in built up areas. Sweet!
     
  20. Celtic Blue

    Celtic Blue New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    2,224
    139
    0
    Location:
    Midwest
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    I must be misreading this. Aero losses are squared not cubic with respect to constant velocity. Rolling resistance is mostly linear. Acceleration would be different.

    Of course when you travel a mile at one speed versus another the time reference is changing. This is why rolling resistance is essentially a fixed loss...having a more detrimental effect as speed declines, while aero losses reduce to becoming linear for distance travelled.