Pretty much my view on Christmas...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Dec 13 2006, 11:16 AM) [snapback]361507[/snapback]</div>

Of course, history shows he wasn't born at Christmas.

I love looking at Pagan tradition that presents itself in Christian practice--Christmas being the biggie. Do the hardcore Christians know this stuff, or choose to ignore it? Just curious...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Dec 13 2006, 11:38 AM) [snapback]361531[/snapback]</div>

I believe it's willful ignorance resulting from the complete rejection of any view that doesn't fit with their own. I had no idea how many Pagan traditions were co-opted by Christianity until my wife started reading about it. It's really quite astounding.

 

daronspicher, we get it. you want the world to wish you a Merry Christmas and shove it in everyone's faces.

While i do celebrate Christmas, i also find it appalling when a company or other nonreligious organization chooses to sponsor one religion over another. if a company comes out and decorates purely for Christmas and ignores other religions, or does a similar theme with their winter catalog, i refuse to shop there.

Putting up a "naughty and nice" list like the one you did is, quite frankly, horrible. you condemn organizations for trying to please everyone, and applaud organizations that pander to your specific demographic.

most of the problems we have in this world are religiously oriented. We wouldn't have problems if people learned to accept others religions and to promote different religions equally in organizations and governments.

Long live Festivus! And a merry Christmahanaquansika!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Dec 13 2006, 12:47 PM) [snapback]361542[/snapback]</div>

Does anyone know if the Flying Spaghetti Monster has a holiday at this time of year?

 

Good question megan... i guess i'd have to buy the Gospel to find out!

 

I have a cousin that was suspended for saying grace with her head bowed during lunch at school. A teacher saw her and told her she was not allowed to do that in school. The next day she did it again and was suspended. A week later she and several other students of different religious beliefs set up a silent prayer protest..... She now attends a different school as she was expelled.....

Someone "Google" the meaning of Christmas, Oh heck I'll do it.

Wikpedea:
Christmas is the Christian holiday that celebrates the birth of Jesus, who Christians believe is The Son of God. The name Christmas is the day of the Christ's birth, which is why Christians call it Christmas, though it is pronounced like Chris muhss.

Over the least few decades Christmas has been commercialized more and more.The religious signification was almost lost, and the retail industry has pushed hard to focus the festival on giving (many, preferably expensive) gifts or presents to one another. This is shown in a recent push for the term "X-mas" (X sound resembles Christ) instead of the traditional "Christmas".


How did Christmas start?

Since about 400 AD, Christians have celebrated the birth of Jesus. 'Christ' means 'Messiah' or 'Anointed One' - the title given to Jesus - and 'Mass' was a religious festival.

In the West today, the real meaning of Christmas is often forgotten. It has become a non-religious holiday! More children believe in Father Christmas than in Jesus. Christmas Day is a time for eating and drinking too much and watching television.

But the real Christmas story is found in the Christian Bible. It is told in two different books: Matthew and Luke chapters 1 and 2. If you have no Bible, you can read these chapters online. You may think that the story of the birth of Jesus, and the way that the West celebrates Christmas today, do not seem to have many connections.
http://www.soon.org.uk/christmas.htm

The Meaning of (the War Over) Christmas:
While an outsider arriving in the United States might see a nation celebrating Christmas with an unrivaled intensity and extravagance, the Right’s media has created another world for its followers – where Christians are persecuted for celebrating their faith, where they are repressed by cruel non-Christians and evil secularists.

This perceived persecution exists even as America’s downtowns and shopping malls are bedecked with the red-and-green Christmas colors and Christmas symbols are everywhere, even in cities like New York with large populations of Jews and Muslims.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2005/121005.html

Liberal Reasons Not to Celebrate Christmas:
The reasons I’ve rejected Christmas are economic, environmental, social and religious. The fact is, Christmas today has become a thoroughly illiberal event, at odds with everything that liberals stand for.
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/NoChristmas.html

He Whose Name We Dare Not Speak:
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/20590.html

Tuesday, December 12, 2006

Our official statement regarding the War on Christmas, courtesy of Wayne Madsen
Forcing religion on consumers is anti-Christmas
http://mlmliberal.blogspot.com/2006/12/our...arding-war.html
**********************************************************************
Scary isnt it? But it just goes to show how things have changed over the years..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MegansPrius @ Dec, 08:53 AM) [snapback]361551[/snapback]</div>

Yes! It's called "Holiday". More and more people are celebrating it!

Happy Holiday!!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Dec 13 2006, 10:54 AM) [snapback]361484[/snapback]</div>

I call BS. I been in a few class rooms, I have yet to see hands go up, eager to read their essays! Even on "Leave it to Beaver" only the suck-up girl voluntarily raised her hand.

But its a nice fable. Kinda like the reason for the season.

 

There's always a FESTIVUS for the rest of us!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RonH @ Dec 13 2006, 11:27 AM) [snapback]361583[/snapback]</div>

This lady teaches 2nd grade and she pretty much gets all hands volunteers for just about everything she asks for. The scenerio I laid out is how it's been for the last 4 years and is the plan for this year. Probably for the future as far as we can see..

Merry Christmas!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Dec 13 2006, 11:06 AM) [snapback]361566[/snapback]</div>

I'd be fine with it.. probably mostly because I think Jewish people are cool.

Why does it bug you that any organization puts out a list like this? Why would you give a rip one way or the other.... if Cat Lovers of America puts out a list like this for companies that support/don't cats... I see that list and keep moving probably without even seeing who's on the list. It especially wouldn't change my buying pattern.

Yet, you see this list put out by Christians,and it bugs the crap out of you. I think that's funny...

 

I wonder why some so-called Christians get their panties in a bunch when a sales clerk wishes them "Happy Holidays". Unless you're wearing a cross around your neck, a clerical collar, or some other overt Christian symbol, then no one knows if you're Christian or not.

Happy Holidays and Seasons Greetings.

 

If you want to be really perverse, just say "Merry Xmas!"

Nobody will know how you spell it and that X is the universal symbol for the unknown quantity.

I'm an atheist but due to my upbringing and cultural brain-washing, I still enjoy Christmas. It's good to have a time of year where people come together and give to each other (in moderation). Even in war-time, both sides often called a truce on this day and somebody who might have been killed lived a bit longer.

The wish of Christmas is "Peace on Earth! Goodwill to men." Why find fault with that? Any way you can further this goal is OK by me, and probably Jesus too.

 

Left up to it's own natural outcome, I don't care if someone says Merry Christmas, or "Thanks for shopping here" or "Have a good day"... it's all good...

If someone hands me the bag and says "You're the ugliest idiot I've seen today and I've seen a lot of 'em", then I'd probably have to ask what's the deal... otherwise, I'm good.

I stop shopping when your store makes the list of places that mandate their cashiers or employees to exempt Christ from Christmas, or exempt Christmas from December while they sell all the "Christmas" stuff.

I'm not going to write them a letter or get all over anyone.... I'm just going to make a mental note that this is how they want the deal and head over to another place to buy my 'thing'.

I typically try not to go to target anymore when walmart is an option. This is largely due to the differing bell ringer policy at the two places. I'm sure there are plenty of people who like target more because they don't hear that bell when they come there. I'm fine with that. I'm guessing that Target has no vested interest other than getting the most dollars in the cash register. If they ever find enough people avoiding them for these reasons, they will likely change policy rather than stand on principal.

 

daron, Target stopped the bell ringers to make its policy consistent. And yet they aren't all about "getting the most dollars in the cash register", otherwise they wouldn't be giving $1 million to the salvation army, along with other money: http://articles.news.aol.com/business/_a/t...9990001?cid=403

And for what it's worth, there are better ways to give to charities than throwing a few coins in a bell ringers can - most businesses raise money for charities like these, and many of them even offer to match a percentage of what employees donate - Here at work, my company matches 50 cents to the dollar for everything i give to salvation army and a number of other charities. I'd much, much rather donate money to funds i think appropriate from the privacy of my computer at work. One of the reasons i avoid walmart is because of the bell ringers - not only are they annoying, but by simply being there they're attempting to guilt you into donating money.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Dec, 10:51 AM) [snapback]361707[/snapback]</div>

Oh no, Holiday is the winter celebration of the Almighty FSM but you Christians keep trying to associate it with your Jesus guy and I find that offensive. Keep Jesus out of our Holiday!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Dec 13 2006, 01:14 PM) [snapback]361721[/snapback]</div>

There's no gripe against the $1 million target donates, but it doesn't come close to the money the SA makes if they have the bell ringers at the stores.

Target got rid of the bell ringers to enforce policy consistancy. I'm ok with that. So far, they're ok with that. If one day the bean counters figure out that Target's bottom line will be xyz million dollars more if they would allow the bell ringers, I would expect to see a policy change of some sort.

Right now, they thing they have the machine tuned while holding on to the existing policy. If they do, then congrats to them for being the careful managers of the business.

I seriously doubt that the bean counters could tell them that they'd make an additional 139 million dollars in december if they'd bring back the bell ringers... you'd see bell ringers there... No way they'd stand on policy and principal.



Lou Dobbs has a fun article that belongs in this discussion. Here's the link, and part of it...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Dec, 11:25 AM) [snapback]361729[/snapback]</div>

And yet you are so offended by the "Happy Holiday" message that you go somewhere else to shop. Might you be a bit of a namby-pamby, little sensitive darling yourself?