Prime vs. Hyundai Ioniq

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by keithjam, Dec 2, 2016.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It was pushed by several PiP advocates on here

    That is a subset of PHEV that GM called EREV(extended range EV). Most PHEVs sold are actually blended PHEVs; they aren't 100% EV for their stated EV range. The PiP and Ioniq PHEV are obviously blended PHEVs, but so are the Energis and Prime. they just have higher thresholds for when the ICE comes one.
    It is still a hybrid and not an ICE car. The ICE gets fired up at a higher rpm, and the motor is there to share the load.
     
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  2. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Get an aftermarket device to read the OBD-II data. You'll be surprised to find out what the engine and motor actually do.

    You'll see the engine runs at a low RPM until warm up is complete. In the meantime, the battery heavily supplements power.

    The engine itself is designed with lighter-weight parts and lower friction to enable a faster warm up.
     
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  3. jaqueh

    jaqueh Active Member

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    Not if you press on the accelerator like you’re going up a hill or accelerating to freeway speeds. I’ve had this car for a while and maintain that you should turn on hv mode at least 3 minutes before you think you may need to use the engine.
     
  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That's an exaggeration based on assumptions. When you look at the actual data, it tells a different story. You can see the heavy draw from the battery and the RPM isn't as high as you think.

    I understand how anecdotal observations allow misled conclusions. That's why I recommend an aftermarket device. When you see it in action, the design of the system makes more sense.
     
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  5. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    If what you say is true, that means you won't get full rated power when you need to floor it while on an entrance ramp to a highway.
    What sort of derated power do you see in these situations, with your data gathering equipment?
    Has it ever let you down when you were expecting normal full power?
     
  6. Bluecar1

    Bluecar1 Active Member

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    this is where the Ioniq PHEV is different to the PiP

    due to the DCT gearbox the ICE tends to rev less than the PiP, you have really got to floor the accelerator / gas pedal to get the engine to 4500+ rpm

    also the handbook says not to sit and let the engine idle to warm up, but to start the car and drive off immediately
     
  7. E-GINO

    E-GINO Active Member

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    I did not want to diminish the ioniQ intrinsec valu
    I did not want to be detrimatal on the ioniQ intrinsic value, but to highlight the fact that after 7 years of Prius Gen 3 drive, one of the Prime features I've more appreciated during the daily drive is the heat pump, even considering its negative sides. Like the fact that, if the outdoor temperature is lower than the one set, and the fan is switched on, the heat pump is silently ON even though the A/C is switched OFF. Or the ill-famed "windshield defrost" pushbutton which should be named "ICE WASTE MODE ON" pushbutton. I think it deserve such epithet, being the Prime still in EV mode, ergo with both electric motors in action by means of the sprung clutch, and ICE burning fuel for windshield defrosting purposes only. It happened to me once, and immediately switched to HV mode thereby recovering some energy from the wasted fuel through MG1 charging the traction battery.
     
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  8. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    This is an interesting point. This drive system in this PHEV may be more efficient in some modes of travel, in that, there is no electric current required to the one or the other MG's as in the eCVT of the Prius line.

    Once in the proper gear there is no electrical power required to transmit the engine power to the wheels.
    This may be why the EPA numbers rival the Prius line. The Kia Niro PHEV is up there too, but it's more boxy.

    Sir, your experience with this is limited to your very mild climate. Have you ever had true frost, outside, and maybe inside your Prime?
    In some places,,, Baby, it's cold out there...
     
    #368 Bill Norton, Mar 15, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
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  9. Bluecar1

    Bluecar1 Active Member

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    yep bill, there are pro's and con's to both the eCVT and the DCT

    neither are a perfect solution and both provide benefits in many ways, as ever it often comes down to driver preference

    the main benefit of the plugin over a basic hybrid is the ability to take onboard electricity produced cleaner and more efficiently than with the ICE

    it will be interesting to see if like the prius the ioniq gradually increases the size of the batteries and motors in the hybrids and plugins

    but I think the Ioniq is a good first attempt by Hyundai, but a bit more EV power and bigger battery would help :)

    I think to a certain extent the Ioniq was built to a budget to be more competitive with the prius to try and get a bit of market share before improving it and increasing price to be more similar to the prius price
     
    #369 Bluecar1, Mar 15, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    There is a 3d, belt-CVT that offers some interesting options:


    Bob Wilson
     
  11. Starship_Enterprius

    Starship_Enterprius Active Member

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    I'd take the slight inefficiency of Toyota's ecvt for it's simplicity, reliability and smoothness over a complicated DCT anytime.

    But I wish Toyota would take a cue from Honda by locking into a fixed gear at high speed. If they can use a solenoid to move in/out a fixed gear in place of the mg's above a speed, that will remove the last vestige of inefficiency from that drive train.

    On the other hand, Honda's single fixed gear feels like it's perennially missing an overdrive. If Toyota can set one of the mgs geared for inclined high speed, the other for flat surfaces and downhill overdrive it'll be much better. But don't ask me if that's possible I'm not an even an engineer :confused::ROFLMAO:
     
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  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The Ioniq is actually Hyundai's second attempt at a hybrid and PHEV, and first at a BEV. They started with an ICE model, the Sonata.
    Less physical parts doesn't equate simple. The gen3 Prius had a recall over software issues that resulted in the car stalling while moving.
     
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  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Curious as the only one I remember is the brake-pause. Probably because I never suffered any adverse effects before or after an inverter software recall.

    Bob Wilson
     
  14. Starship_Enterprius

    Starship_Enterprius Active Member

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    Me too,I'm googling prius stalling problem and can't figure out how it is connected with the ecvt. Seems more to do with electronic / fuse / ipm.
     
  15. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    "Recall" was given the stigma by antagonists, doing everything they could to undermine Prius.

    So any update to the system at all, regardless of how rare it was, got labeled as negative.

    Yet, for some reason, over the air updates for Tesla somehow managed to avoid the bad connotation.

    Hopefully, that "retain the status quo" fight will finally subside now that every automaker is trying to deliver something with a plug.
     
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  16. Bluecar1

    Bluecar1 Active Member

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    yep, we had a couple of recalls due to casting flaws in the HPCU and the electric motor casing allowing coolant into the wrong areas

    but they seemed to affect a small number of cars, but to be fair to Hyundai they recalled and checked more cars than affected to make sure they got all of them

    to me so long as a manufacturer acknowledges an issue and recalls those affect to fix them quickly once the fault is identified then no problem

    if they try and ignore it like the VAG diesel gate scandal then the manufacturer deserves all the stick they get
     
  17. E-GINO

    E-GINO Active Member

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    I remember at least 6 Toyota recall campaigns concerning the GEN 3, i.e. regenerative brake logic/ECU, main brakes actuator, steering column, inverter ECU, airbags and fuel tank. To me, this only demonstrates how seriously Toyota take into account the safety and the quality of its products.
     
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  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I do not mention recall as a bad thing. Just to illustrate that perfection is not possible.

    I too saw the mechanical simplicity of the PSD has a plus. I also once bought into the long tail pipe propaganda against EVs. But both are just spin stressing a positive or a negative. While the PSD is a simple planetary gear set, the fact is that it would not work at all without a whole lot of computing power with the attending hardware and sensors.
     
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  19. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    It's funny to see you still talk like this years later,,,(It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you....)
    Anyways,, what about your statement up thread about: "Derated power" at the start up of a cold Prius Prime engine.
    Does this cause a driving problem when you suddenly need the full advertised power?
     
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  20. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    The complexity of the Toyota system is in the software. It's a whole lot easier to roll out a software update than it is to roll out a hardware update.:)

    I still crack up when I see the AAMCO commercials, where they have an exploded view of an automatic transmission, and dialog saying that they can maintain all of the 800+ parts of your automatic transmission.
     
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