Prime vs. Hyundai Ioniq

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by keithjam, Dec 2, 2016.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It isn't clear if the 28kWh Hyundai quotes is for the whole battery or just the usable portion.
     
  2. Mister MMT

    Mister MMT Active Member

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    According to this source, it is the usable capacity.

    Ja
     
  3. Jan Treur

    Jan Treur Active Member

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    Around Prague a comparative test was conducted mid-November on a highway track for three cars: the Ioniq Electric, the BMW i3 and the Leaf, to see how far they came on a full charge before being empty. Temperature was 5° C, and it was rainy and foggy so that the cars needed charge to take care of these weather effects. See here or here.

    The outcome is shown in the table below. I did some extra calculations and found that indeed the Ioniq Electric used 28 kWh in this race to empty. So either the battery can be used for 100% or the real capacity of the battery is 31 kWh and 28 kWh is usable (90%), as some have put forward.

    Note also the significant differences in measured efficiency: 15% or more. Due to this the Ioniq made a longer distance on less kWh than the BMW i3 (but note their slightly different average speed; however, this can only explain a small fraction of the difference).

    -------------------------------------------Ioniq------------------BMW i3------------------Leaf
    Indicated range (NEDC)---------280 km----------------300 km------------------250 km
    Distance to empty----------------165 km---------------149.1 km----------------122.1 km
    Average consumption----17 kWh/100 km----20 kWh/100 km------21.5 kWh/100 km
    Average speed---------------------78 km/h--------------80.6 km/h--------------77 km/h
    Battery capacity--------------------28 kWh---------------33 kWh------------------30 kWh
    Used kWh total------------------28.1 kWh------------29.8 kWh---------------26.2 kWh
     
    #43 Jan Treur, Dec 7, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
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  4. civicdriver06

    civicdriver06 Active Member

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    BMW surprises me too a bit .
    They were never known for building fuel efficient gas cars and now they seem to continue that tradition with electric cars !
    Ok diesels may be an exception but then those allways have been efficient but unfortunately not very clean and environment friendly.
    I know the weather conditions weren't ideal,but it seems that Hyundai showed them their taillights considering efficiency !
    And the Leaf ?
    Desaster!
    Where is the progress they should have made by now ?
     
  5. axle2152

    axle2152 Active Member

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    Only problem with Hyundai is that they're Kia... Not saying every Kia is bad but they have some issues. A co-worker of mine told me about how his father goes to buy a new Kia, signs off on the purchase and all and when he's about to leave the dealer in his brans new Kia...the windshield falls out...
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Steady state efficiency at one speed is a simple formula. The i3's drag isn't going to help it. A repeat of the test with stops would interesting. Then the i3's lower weight may make it the champ.

    It is more Kia is now Hyundai.
     
  7. Jan Treur

    Jan Treur Active Member

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    Let's hope Kia is inheriting good things from Hyundai and not Hyundai inherits bad things from Kia.
     
  8. MikeDee

    MikeDee Senior Member

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    The Iconiq has only one electric motor. Does that mean it is not a power split drivetrain, or is the second motor only needed in eCVT configurations? Comments on drivetrain efficiency?
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It's a parallel hybrid, so not a power split. It does appear that two motors are needed for eCVTs. A parallel could use a CVT, but the Sonata hybrid has a traditional step transmission while the Ioniq has a double clutch.

    The efficiency robbing part of an automatic is the torque convertor. The motor replaces it on the Sonata, while DCTs never used one. An UK owner reported good numbers in the other Ioniq thread, but there are some reviews in which the Prius does better. The North American one will be the model with all the advances though.

    Hyundai's stance is that a parallel hybrid can provide the efficiency of a power-split for lower cost. The starter and alternator is replaced with a 10kW HSG, which is smaller than the M/G1. The main motor is also smaller than the M/G2, but it isn't direct drive. Having output, and regen input, go through the transmission can make up the motor's lower performance for the car's total performance. The transmission costs more than a power-split transaxle in materials, but it is also a part shared with thousands of ICE models. The HSG might also see mass production costs reductions if Hyundai uses it for a basic mild hybrid system in those ICE models. The Ioniq's battery is higher capacity than the Prius, but the increase is tiny compared to what plug ins get.

    So it's early to tell if Hyundai's stance is true. Full parallel hybrids are still a relatively new thing to the market, so calls one way or the other are premature.
     
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  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    I drive a BMW i3-REx and the roll-down data suggests there are issues that need investigation. The recent cold weather has suggested a closer look is needed.

    Bob Wilson
     
  11. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    The Prime's MG2 is not a direct drive as well, if the Ioniq drive motor is smaller (in power) than MG2 it means it must run very fast. Possible point for concern?
     
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I thought they offered some efficient trims in the early '80s; the model number was followed by an e.

    The gear ratio variation for the HSD takes place in the PSD. M/G2's input to the drivetrain takes place after it on all Toyota hybrids. There might be a reduction gear, but that doesn't change the fact that the only way for M/G2 to change the wheel speed is to change its own. Likewise in the Prime's dual motor operation, the M/G1 can add to propulsion, but there is no 'gear' changes because that requires the input of the ICE, which is locked up.

    Hyundai has the traction motor sandwiched between the ICE and transmission. It doesn't directly spin the drive wheels in the manner of the HSD M/G2; it spins the transmission. So its output can be altered by changing gears before it reaches the drive wheels; it will use higher gears to lower the motor speed at faster car speeds.

    PS Reception of the Ioniq PHEV will be interesting. It will have a more powerful motor than the hybrid, but the possible use gear shifts in EV mode might sour the experience for some.
     
  13. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Still can't get an answer as to if and when the Ioniq will go on sale in the us
     
  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    They did. For example the 528e.
     
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    First quarter 2017 was the latest I've heard. Hyundai isn't doing well since their line up is car heavy, and SUVs are popular again. There is a shake up going on of the top management from it. So I think the Ioniq will get here when it gets here.

    The Kia Niro, with the same drivetrain, should arrive soon. Models are starting to show up on Fueleconomy.gov, and there is one on display at some dealerships across the nation.
     
  16. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Oops, my bad, Somehow I was thinking of the Ioniq Electric when writing.
    Giving same name for Hybride, PHEV and Electric has an advantage...of confusing:eek:
     
  17. Bluecar1

    Bluecar1 Active Member

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    the EV version of the Ioniq has a single speed reduction gearbox between the motor and wheels
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    One credible source claims US sales start in April: Hyundai IONIQ - Prius competitor? | Page 63 | PriusChat

    As for the plug-in release, it is still in the rumor state, "summer" or "fall."

    Bob Wilson
     
  19. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Oddly that date for the hybrid has stayed more or less the same.

    My thought is that Hyundai wanted to release the Ev first but that gas prices, the Chevy bolt, politics and internal chaos have delayed it.

    Hopefully we get the gen ii Ioniq battery as a result and another 200 mile range ev as a result.
     
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  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    ill take 150 miles at $16,000. net after tax credits.
     
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