Prime's Charge Mode - Fast Charge?

Discussion in 'Prime Plug-in Charging' started by giora, Oct 29, 2016.

  1. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    "HV mode will slowly restore battery capacity, but you can hold down the HV button for three seconds or so to speed up the process. The car will switch into Charge mode, relying primarily on the gasoline engine for driving force. In this mode, Toyota’s chief engineer for the Prius, Koji Toyoshima, says the Prime will restore 80 percent of battery capacity in 30 minutes."

    2017 Toyota Prius Prime Second Drive Roadtest Review | Automobile Magazine

    If this is true, and not some misinterpretation, then:
    At 60 mph it will take ~30 miles to restore ~20 EV miles.
    If 80% of usable EV charge capacity is ~4.6 kWh (my calculation) then Charge mode charging rate is ~9.2 kW quite a fast rate! And this is net to the battery. More than 3 times the L2 rate.
    So, in case it is desired, you have a relatively fast charging option.
    I assume the engine will be quite loud in this mode.
     
    #1 giora, Oct 29, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2016
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    That follows what has been said about fast charge elsewhere in relation to time it took.
    On a day long drive, I wonder how much the battery will be replenished without fast charge.
     
  3. giora

    giora Senior Member

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  4. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Judging by the PiP - probably nothing.
     
  5. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    If the software for the Prime is not improved then you are right. With the updated power train I hope the software for HV mode was improved as well. I tried to keep the PiP in pulse mode for a 10 mile stretch of the Thruway. No way it could be done in PWR mode, too touchy. In ECO mode you wound up slowing losing speed without realizing it, so I had to switch to normal. Long story short, I gained 1/10 mile. That's from the guess-o-meter so who knows but it was too much work. Oddly enough, if I kept it on PWR mode and used my cruise control, I got a 2/10 of a mile increase every time I did it over a 35 mile span.


    Unsupervised!
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if the engine can charge the battery while in hv mode to any significant extent, it must be wasting a lot of energy when not charging. i don't buy it.
     
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  7. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Why the software for HV should be improved, may I ask, if you desire for some EV miles - you have the Charge mode. If 2-3 EV miles are collected during downhill HV drive - let them be automatically used improving HV mpg.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    all the improving in the gen 4 added very little to mpg's. there's only so much you can do, even toyota has admitted this.
     
  9. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Sorry, I meant improving mpg for this particular trip.
     
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm not disagreeing, i'm saying the software will have a small effect like the lift back. it's not going to suddenly make the car 20% more efficient.
     
  11. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Yes, I doubt if the Prime HV mode software will be different from PiP.
    In post #7 I was answering @drash but yours went in between.
     
  12. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    HV mode software would have to be improved to incorporate Fast Charge mode. In Toyota's eyes HV mode is not necessarily Charge Sustainment mode but modified to increase charge when running since the entire system including electronics has been improved. Until we get reports from people who actually are using these cars we won't really know. But the quick answer to improve MPG is to use EV Auto which was designed to utilize the rather large battery to improve MPG. Blended mode on the PiP is extremely fuel efficient (depending on speed) and have graphs to prove it.


    Unsupervised!
     
  13. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    It's a question of definition I suppose, I see Prime's HV mode and Charge mode as two different modes. I don't think the software for HV will act differently from PiP HV operation.
     
  14. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    You seem to be overlooking efficiency reports from gen-4 liftback owners. Charging the battery would be a tradeoff of the truly remarkable MPG they experience with something that's simply really really good.
     
  15. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    But for the Prime it is not really needed out of Charge mode, is it?
     
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  16. KrPtNk

    KrPtNk Active Member

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    When I was at the Prime test drive in Portland, the cars were running in charge mode lined up and waiting to be driven It was difficult to tell they were running. They were very quiet.
     
  17. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Thanks.
    But this was when they were idling, I assume that when cruising at 60 mph the engine in Charge mode will be noisier than in HV mode, how much noisier I don't know.
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i must not have made myself clear. i don't know how really, really good or handy or beneficial it will be, but i doubt prime will be charging the battery any more than pip or gen4 lift back in hv mode.
     
  19. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    I'm surprised no one has mentioned that we already have a "charge mode", one that replenishes battery-capacity more aggressively than HV mode. It's been a basic part of how Prius PHV operates. It's quiet. It's smooth. And apparently, it's easy to overlook.

    Toyota has simply allowed it to be used more for Prime. Coupled with a more efficient gas-engine and refined software, why not?

    To observe the charge-mode currently available, just drop the pedal down hard with a cold engine. Notice what happens over the course of the next few minutes?

    It's especially interesting if you try this scenario, a situation I attentively observed knowing the circumstances would be quite informative... Deplete the EV capacity. Continue along in HV mode, electric-only driving. Turn onto a highway entrance ramp with the gas-engine completely cold (not used for many hours). Drop the pedal to the floor and hold it there.

    I watched the entire HV capacity be consumed in those next few seconds to provide as much electric power as possible to accelerate the Prius to 70 mph. SOC dropped to the 18% minimum, then shortly afterward, began to climb. Within only a few minutes, the entire HV capacity (the 23.5% maximum) had already been restored.

    That's a recharge-rate clearly faster than while driving in HV mode. It's obviously not as efficient. But if all you're doing is cruising along a highway for a long distance anyway, why not keep charging beyond the HV threshold? Having that EV capacity available later could be a very efficient use of that electricity.

    Of course, some owners won't understand when to best use that electricity from gas rather than from plugging it. But how is that any different from an owner of a regular Prius attempting to maximize EV use? Used well, there's a efficiency gain. Used poorly, there's an efficiency penalty.
     
  20. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    This scenario is not possible, once EV capacity is depleted the cold engine starts.
     
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