Prime's Charge Mode - Fast Charge?

Discussion in 'Prime Plug-in Charging' started by giora, Oct 29, 2016.

  1. Jan Treur

    Jan Treur Active Member

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    Yes, for the European PiP this is only possible with a warm engine, electric only driving in HV mode.
     
  2. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    I was likely going under 25 mph. The distance was perfect for running out just as I turned to enter the ramp... which is why I was paying such close attention.
     
  3. civicdriver06

    civicdriver06 Active Member

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    I think it's absolutely great that they included charge mode !
    If it just takes 30 min to get to 80% that's even greater and much faster as I thought it would be .
    I will definitely use it from time to time !
     
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  4. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    The math doesn't work. Danny said the highway mileage dropped into the 40s when he put it into CHG mode. This works out to 4-5kW, not 9kW.
     
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  5. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    If the charge rate is more or less constant in Charge mode (which I think it is) than it is not enough to say 'mileage fell to the 40s' period, it will depend on speed (or load), anyways, 40s can be 40 to 49.
    The math does work on the data given of 30 minutes to 80%.
    Time will tell.

    EDIT: Added:
    Charge mode works even when the car is not moving and engine idles (as was reported by @KrPtNk ) and in this case the mileage is zero.

    Your number is noted, as I said - time will tell.
     
    #25 giora, Oct 29, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2016
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    my engine comes on when i run out of ev, even if i'm going under 25 mph. unless the engine is warm.
    i must have got a defective pip.
     
  7. Jan Treur

    Jan Treur Active Member

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    Same for me
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  9. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    If your electrical grid is high carbon intensive, say above about 700 g CO2e per kWh, Charge mode will not only be faster than grid charging but may also be 'greener' with respect to GHG emissions.
    One may argue that in those circumstances a regular Prius is 'greener' (less GHGs per mile) than any plug-in, which is probably true, however, having the option of EV drive in the city is a big advantage of zero localized (tail pipe) pollution.
    In those regions, the Prime is better than any BEV in this respect.
    Just a thought...
     
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  10. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Our grid mix is currently changing fast in my area. 10 years ago we were over 70% coal and less than 1% wind. Now we're less than 50% coal and more than 14% wind. During the life of the Prime the mix is highly likely to change further.

    There are times now when wind can exceed 60% of our source mix, almost always at night. Load at night can thus allow more wind on the grid. BEVs can substantially help there and that's when the mix is cleanest.
     
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  11. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Which means that your region is not one of those anymore which is good. We all hope that electricity will become greener and sooner the better - not only because of transportation.
    I don't know about your region, wind is a bit tricky being unpredictable in many places. But there are areas where the grid is more carbon intense at night than during daylight, partially due to the absence of PV power and also because turning down coal plant to low production and turning it up again are much more difficult than doing it with other sources.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm more concerned with petroleum use. we can clean up the grid if we desire to do so.
     
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  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    In the US, the majority of new renewable electric is wind. Then the majority of non-renewable going in is natural gas in the form of CCGT. These can be turned off and on rather quickly, and are most likely to be used if night time demand goes up in most regions.

    Steam turbines, whether coal or nuclear, are the ones with issues in shutting down completely. Starting up takes time to boil the water and build up enough pressure. Shutting down runs the risk of water hammers in the steam lines. A ruptured steam line may do more than leak. So operators will basically give the electric away from these plants than shut them down. I don't have a problem with nuclear for base load until renewables, and the means of storing their excess can meet our needs.
     
  14. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Would you support meaningful federal tax on gas to drastically reduce petroleum use? now it seems to be a perfect time for such 'brave' move.
     
    #34 giora, Oct 31, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2016
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  15. CraigCSJ

    CraigCSJ Active Member

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    A number of people I know have gone from anti nuclear to pro fourth generation nuclear after reading Prescription for the Planet by Tom Blees. The book describes the IFR developed in the USA which largely solves the problems of nuclear waste, safety, proliferation and cost.
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I'd support one. I'd don't see our government actually passing one though.
     
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  17. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I did the math for a relatively lousy mix of electricity fuels, and I got a surprising result. In this scenario, EV still produces less CO2/mile driven. I'm slightly suspicious of this result so I'm wondering if someone could check this for me.
    Prime CO2-mile.jpg
     
  18. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    If this can help:
    EPA: Prius tailpipe: 171 g/mile Prius ECO tailpipe: 158 g/mile. With 'upstream' emissions: 190 and 205 respectively.
    Compare Side-by-Side

    Coal firing: ~900 g/kWh NG firing: ~450 g/kWh, these are at the powerplant 'exit door'.
    These are without 'upstream' emissions estimated ~10% more.
     
    #38 giora, Oct 31, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2016
  19. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Okay, my math was all correct, but my accuracy was not. Instead of using assumed efficiencies, I used actual average heating rates, measured grid efficiency and reported mix for my state (Colorado). Different result.

    Prime CO2-mile.jpg
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes, and if there is concern for low income drivers, give them some sort of support based on the mpg of their car. but i agree with tb, there is very little political will, especially on the right. we are greatly influenced by oil pac's.
     
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