Prius annoyances

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Zed Ruhlen, Jun 13, 2019.

  1. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    6,931
    8,526
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    I've never tried it, but apparently it will go into Ready with the cable connected. Not sure about when it's actually charging.
    From the manual:
    • When the charging cable is connected to the vehicle
    Do not operate the shift lever.
    In the unlikely event that the charging cable has been damaged, the shift position may change from P to another position and the vehicle could move, possibly leading to an accident.​

    And that made me curious. My car is charging right now, so I went outside and did a little test. With the car charging, I got in, closed the door, put my foot on the brake, and pressed the Power button. It went to Ignition ON Mode, not to Ready. I'll try to remember to check it when it's done charging, but I won't get mad if someone beats me to it. :D Based on the warning in the manual, my guess is that it behaves differently once it finishes charging and still is plugged in. Edit to add: I missed your comment in #199, @Salamander_King. So, it would only go to Ready if the cable malfunctioned. I guess. o_O

    IMG_1442.jpg
     
    padroo likes this.
  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    13,082
    6,615
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    If you didn't like LED headlights being used as DRLs for styling or light pattern reasons, then you'd have a reasonable point.

    But objecting on the basis of the LED fixture's operating life expectancy, needing replacement due to some 'wearout' mechanism, is not reasonably defensible. Designed and manufactured properly, the LED fixtures should be able to be turned on for the entire operating life of the vehicle, day and night, and encounter a negligible replacement rate.
     
  3. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    5,165
    3,894
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    So, I wonder what the manual means when it states "In the unlikely event that the charging cable has been damaged, the shift position may change from P to another position and the vehicle could move, possibly leading to an accident."
    I take it means, if the charging cable is connected, but is damaged somehow so that car no longer detect the cable being plugged in. It is now possible to accidentally shift the car out of P. Remember that under normal condition, the car will not allow the sifter to be placed out of P with the cable attached. So, in this case, the car can now ROLL and move even if the charge cable is still attached. I don't think it means it can go into READY mode.
     
    #203 Salamander_King, Nov 19, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  4. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    11,971
    6,220
    0
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    Just a guess:

    The J1772 standard describes a Proximity Pilot signal that locks the plug into the car so it can't be removed. It is possible that the Prius uses this signal to lock the car in Park as well. So it would require a failure of the Proximity Pilot wire/connector.

    SAE J1772 - Wikipedia
     
    padroo and Trollbait like this.
  5. vvillovv

    vvillovv Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    964
    355
    0
    Location:
    NY
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    It's always good to double check the safety is still working every once in a while.
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  6. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    2,762
    2,220
    13
    Location:
    Chesterton, Indiana Another third world country.
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    I always wondered if someone ever drove off while plugged in.
     
  7. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    6,931
    8,526
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    The text you emphasized is (I think) carefully phrased. Notice that it does NOT say it can change from P to N and move. If N was the only other possible position, it should say so and not imply other possibilities.

    Anyway, I tried yesterday's experiment again, but with the car plugged in and not charging. Foot on brake and hit the Power button. After getting a message that the charge door was open, I got this:
    IMG_1444 2.jpg

    So, it is pretty clear to me from the manual and from my two little experiments, that the cable would have to be damaged in order for the car to either roll or drive with the cord attached.

    And as I think about this, I feel like I should give kudos to the engineers who program this stuff. Thinking as a former industrial electrician, I well remember all the "what if" scenarios I had to imagine and deal with when I was programming high speed automated machinery. What if the operator does such and such, while this is happening? What if the operator does it while that's happening and the other thing is happening? What if this, that, or the other thing breaks? And on and on. And no matter how careful you are, it's quite likely that something unforeseen will happen and you'll have to come back and make changes. It was a ton of fun but also a little nerve wracking when it came to the safety considerations.
     
    Mendel Leisk and Salamander_King like this.
  8. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    5,165
    3,894
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    OK, is that mean PRIME will not "roll" if the sifter is in D or B or R while the car is NOT in READY mode. In fact, in normal situation is it even possible to put the shifter in D or B or R or even N while the car is NOT in READY mode?
     
  9. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    6,931
    8,526
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    I've never been able to move it out of Park unless it was in Ready. Perhaps someone else has a different experience.
     
    vvillovv and Salamander_King like this.
  10. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    5,165
    3,894
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    That's what I thought.
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    37,586
    26,347
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I was a steel fabrication checker for a few years, and it occured to me more than once that at least in part I was a Guinea Pig: "if Mendel can figure this out, anyone can...".

    A "what if" that doesn't seem to filter through to Toyota: "what if there's a ton of salt on the roads, 6 months of the year?".

    Rambling...
     
    Salamander_King and jerrymildred like this.
  12. Zed Ruhlen

    Zed Ruhlen Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2018
    124
    68
    0
    Location:
    Hood River, OR
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Interesting. I did not know that. I do know that I once got a ticket in my Subaru Forester for having a DRL that was out. In the daytime. The cop wouldn't even give me a warning. I think that's when I started hating on DRL.
     
    bisco likes this.
  13. Zed Ruhlen

    Zed Ruhlen Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2018
    124
    68
    0
    Location:
    Hood River, OR
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Dimming over lifespan of LEDs is well known and NOT related to heat per se. It's a factor of the technology. Usually when they list the lifetime it is the point at which the light is reduced to 80% of rated lumens. Now bulb failure is absolutely related to heat issues.
     
  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    40,324
    11,839
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    The annoying thing came when LEDs became bright enough. Then, whether they were auxiliary or low beams, they were bright enough that people thought their headlights are on. (Think about it. LED DRLs that aren’t headlights are actually bright enough to dimly illuminate their roads). Of course you had people coming out of cars from the 80s and 90s and are unfamiliar with the LED instrument clusters which are always on day or night so between the illuminated instrument cluster and the bright LED DRLs, these drivers think their headlights are on. We need to bring back the “ DRL ON” warning light that some Hondas had.

    Ahh that sucks. For something minor, a warning should’ve suffice.

    I can understand DRLs being less effective in southern states but up north, they work well (winter, low sun angle, sunny day, snow covered ground)
     
  15. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    13,082
    6,615
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Did you challenge it? Since Oregon doesn't require DRLs, it shouldn't have been a real violation.

    I was once pulled over on tribal land for a headlight out, at noon. No ticket or warning because it wasn't dark, he portrayed it as an alert, but he did use the opportunity to promote the tribal gas station.
    What is their lifespan rating?

    A 20% loss of light over the LED life is not that significant, especially for LEDs rated for 100,000 hours, corresponding to 2 million to 5 million driving miles. Though poor heat management will shorten that. But the DRL function should run much cooler than the full headlight function.

    ---------------

    PS. The first LED headlight numbers I'm seeing are 50,000 hours. Ok, 20% loss over 1-2 million operating miles when used fulltime. The common hazing of plastic headlight covers is much worse and faster than that.
     
  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    40,324
    11,839
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    So we should be good?

    Corolla, Prius, Prius Prime, last gen RAV4 all use low beam headlights as DRLs (the Prime is slightly dimmer than full headlights.)
     
  17. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    13,082
    6,615
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    I won't yet go so far as to say that you really are good.

    But design-wise, you are supposed to be good. And if there is a real problem lurking in there, it very much ought to be showing in older OEM LED units already, especially in Canada where all of them are forced on full-time. Fewer Americans run them that way.

    I won't say the same for aftermarket products. Premature failures from heat management problems are very likely to be rampant in that market.
     
  18. Zed Ruhlen

    Zed Ruhlen Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2018
    124
    68
    0
    Location:
    Hood River, OR
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    It happened in California where they are also not required but since it was a "headlight" and was burned out he tagged me. Oh and it was in the middle of nowhere on a trip so I couldn't easily contest it. I did contest it via mail and had the fine reduced but not eliminated.
     
  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    14,618
    6,441
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    If the DRL is also the headlight, then it to would be out.

    Of course, this is just another reason to have the DRLs turned out if not legally required.
     
  20. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2012
    727
    286
    0
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    This is a difficult task, as anyone responsible for designing hardware/software to be used by others can attest. Engineers jokingly say something to the effect of, "Design something to be idiot proof and they'll design a better idiot." It comes from the frustration of having a user engage some combination of conditions that the engineer did not anticipate, and usually a combination that seemed far-fetched and nonsensical during design stages. Thinking of all the possible permutations can be impossible. Sometimes you have to construct a matrix, and even that can be impossible depending on the number of possible states to consider. Even something with 5 pieces having only three possible conditions would present 243 possible permutations of conditions. :confused:
     
Loading...