Prius Gen3 going into 2019

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Andres V, Dec 14, 2018.

  1. Andres V

    Andres V Junior Member

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    Hi all.
    Some of you may have followed my story, a common one.
    Car's stuck at home in my driveway because of HV battery failure, error code P0A80 with fixed display message CHECK HYBRID SYSTEM.
    My car is a Prius Gen3 2010 that I bought used a year ago.
    It has 93000 mi on it, so far it has worked great, great mileage but 4 months ago I started getting these error messages, car's been making me worry and loose a lot of time back and forth from my Toyota dealer to do the diagnostics, since the error came and went twice.
    It's clear it needs a new battery and since around nobody sells cheaper solutions I don't have any choice in buying an original TOYOTA HV battery.
    As of right now I saved enough to do the entire repair but hear me out... there's a little voice inside of me that keeps screaming not invest anymore on an almost 10 years old car, with no trained personal locally or in the country, possibility for more trouble ahead, a lot of traveling with my car in the next 2 years for studies (I forsee +1100 mi/month/2 years).
    What do you think? Is it worth it to go on with a car like mine or am I better off buying another new one, a cheap gasoline efficient small car to keep on with my studies (I'll be attending a specialization degree in another city every weekend for the next 2 years).

    Apart from this misfortune that I happened to have, can I expect my car to keep on going after changing the battery? I mean, is my Prius model reliable enough or am I expecting more surprises?
    Thanks.
     
  2. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    If it were a 2009 Prius I'd say 100% yes... You'll get a 1/4 million miles out of it with not much for repair costs after a new battery pack, but Gen3 redesign of exhaust gas recycling (EGR) was an epic fail that can blow up the engine and you need to have that dunce of a system cleaned regularly.

    And perhaps a bigger problem is all the rip-off auto mechanics, especially car dealerships that ruin people's lives overcharging for repairs.

    And then there's us DIY folks... To me a battery pack that goes bad cost me $30 to replace a bad module and 20 hours of enjoyment rebuilding & reconditioning the battery pack because I love perfecting that process...

    So to answer your question, it all comes down to finding a mechanic/friend/family member that enjoys learning about this stuff and that you trust so you don't get ripped off. Add to that this website giving you all the knowledge you need to fix anything in a Prius and you're good to go in yr Prius for another 10 years or longer.
     
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  3. Andres V

    Andres V Junior Member

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    You never stop learning stuff. What is this EGR, I already read something about that. When I scanned with my ODB2 and Torque app I got another error message P0401 TOYOTA - Exhaust Gas Recirculation Flow Insufficient Detected. Is this something new to worry about?



    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  4. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Yes, that means it needs to be cleaned so you don't blow yr headgasket.
     
  5. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    I wouldn’t call the egr an epic fail, cause every vehicle that has it, this happens ;).

    Ever read about diesels with egr circuits:eek:.

    The key is awareness to these subtle nuances so they can be preventatively maintained:).

    As for your battery, I would answer it this way: if you are not the diy type and have an aging car, I would look to repair the battery to get the car going then find something else;).

    Good luck and keep us posted (y).
     
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    dump it
     
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  7. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Really sorry, but it's really hard to give an opinion on this situation.
    All things being even, putting a OEM brand new Toyota Hybrid battery in a Prius with less than 100,000 miles on it, doesn't sound like a bad investment to me, BUT...there is just too much I can't know.

    The key really is the shape of the vehicle...as a whole. If it's in good shape? Then investing into a new Hybrid Battery IMO is a worthy, good investment.
    With your projected high volume driving, almost nothing is going to save you more money on gasoline than the Prius.

    But if you have concerns about the condition of the rest of the vehicle, engine, transmission, suspension, etc, etc...then you may not want to continue to invest.

    The other thing to consider is any other used vehicle you might purchase instead of investment into the Prius, also probably won't come with any guarantees.
    Non-Hybrid vehicles can also have expensive repairs, and high cost breakdowns. So not investing into the Prius, and choosing to buy something else, is no guarantee of better reliability.

    It's too bad you don't have access to a better infrastructure to repair but also evaluate the Prius. If I had concerns about investment, what I would want to determine as best I could, would be the condition of the vehicle outside of the failing Hybrid Battery. If it got a good bill of health otherwise, I don't think I'd hesitate to invest into the Hybrid Battery.
    If the engine didn't check out well, or other major problems seemed poised on the horizon, then moving away and on from the Prius might be the best call
    But entirely impossible to know on the internet.

    You say it's a long drive, but you evidently DO have access to a Toyota Dealership, what do they say about the overall condition of the vehicle?
    Do you have access to it's maintenance records?
    Knowing what shape it is BESIDES the Hybrid Battery to me is key to knowing whether continued investment is worthwhile.
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Lapsed Cargo Cultist

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    What about @2k1Toaster 's cylindrical cell offering, not in the cards?
     
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  9. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    True, Gen3 in and of itself may not be an epic fail, especially in the context of all the junk cars on the market that they try to sell as modern, advanced and innovative...

    But when you build the revolutionary Gen2 Prius that over a decade ago had almost the same excitement and buzz that Tesla currently does and then you follow up on the amazing success with "improvements" in Gen3 which seriously limits the lifespan of the car with engine failure unless you get expensive regular maintenance -----> compared to the Gen2 that's an epic fail!!!! All they had to do is not change the Gen2 exhaust gas re-circulation design and all the Gen3's would have the same potential to reach a 1/4 million miles relatively maintenance free like all the Gen2s still on the road.
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Lapsed Cargo Cultist

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    Meh: I've done one DIY EGR cleaning, preposterously early around 72K kms. Zero $ outlay, about one day downtime.

    The MAIN issue is Toyota dragging their feet on this.
     
  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    As far as I know, Gen 2 had no EGR. I take it that's the EGR design they shouldn't have changed? :)
     
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  12. Andres V

    Andres V Junior Member

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    I seriously thought about it. I am a DIY guy untill a certain point but in this case I'd have to ship them over here from the US, do the change myself and if anything goes wrong in the worst case senerario it means sending everything back to Toaster and bothering a whole lot of people I know helping me with the shipping back and forth. I don't have a problem with Toaster's product, it was infact my first solution in mind but at this point what's the point? If anything else goes wrong apart from the battery I already confirmed in Mexico there's 0 competent mechanics that mantain hybrids, it's rocket science right now and I feel awful to have thrown so much money already for an old car that just lately I'm discovering cheap diesel cars with similar milage and less maintenece hassle. I don't want to talk Ill of this beautiful country that I live in that gave me a lot in my life, a career, a wife and professional education and I won't, but I have to accept it's still not the time for hybrids here. There maybe some capable mechanics, somewhere... but as far as I know not advertised on the internet, not in possible range for me. If anyone is reading this from Mexico and is having the same issues with any hybrid, take my advice and avoid hybrids for the next 5 to 8 years untill profesionals start getting trained for real on this subject. If you're a mechanic reading this from Mexico, start learning to repair these cars, it's about time ... If your a capable mechanic reading this from Mexico please tell me where you are and I'll manage somehow to take my car to you.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    #12 Andres V, Dec 15, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
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  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm still not comfortable with the quality of hybrid mechanics around here, it's a different mindset
     
  14. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Active Member

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    Search youtube, you can find SEVERAL videos of people replacing the cells. Toaster have one also.
    I have not done one, yet, but from waht I watched, it's fairly easy. Just take you time and follow the videos.
    YOU CAN DO IT! :)
     
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  15. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    @2k1Toaster has shipped to many countries. PM him here for pricing. His is not a large uncaring company.
     
  16. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Yes... They adjust the valve timing in Gen2 to add exhaust gasses to the combustion chamber directly without the need for any extra plumbing, but then they realized they could decrease pollutants even more by cooling the exhaust before sending it back into the engine... And that made a mess that ruins your engine if you don't keep it clean. in the Gen4 they solve this by grabbing the exhaust further downstream past the catalytic converter. Or at least that's what someone said on here in a recent thread. :)
     
  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Hmm ... there was an intake valve timing change from Gen 1 to Gen 2 ... the range of VVT-i control variability was reduced by ten degrees. The earliest timing didn't change (still open 18° BTDC and close 72° ABDC), but the latest possible timing went to open 15° ATDC, close 105° ABDC in Gen 2. In Gen 1, it could open as late as 25° ATDC and close at 115° ABDC.

    The exhaust valve timing isn't variable in either generation, and doesn't change from Gen 1 to Gen 2. Exhaust is always closed by 2° ATDC.

    Anybody have the Gen 3 figures (I've got no Gen 3 New Car Features manual in front of me at the moment). Are they much different?

    Was there a thread somewhere explaining how these timings amount to an EGR design?
     
  18. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Hmm, indeed. This is a strong rebuttal to the conversation/learning session we had last week... Let me pull out my journal and see if I can go back and find the posting/poster that explained far more dynamic valve variability as a form of EGR system.
     
  19. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Found it... Hopefully @m.wynn will chime in:

    also same thread different post:

    You can view the full thread here: Still Misfiring After Cleaning IM - Please read | PriusChat
     
  20. m.wynn

    m.wynn Senior Member

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    Agree with the numbers stated by Chap, and that exhaust timing is fixed on 1NZ-FXE. Was unaware of late timing change between gens 1 & 2, but guessing it doesn't matter if Toy intends early intake valve open to allow for back flow of exhaust gas into the intake on the exhaust stroke.

    valvetmg.png
     
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