Prius Owners Unite

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by PApriuschic, Sep 26, 2019.

Tags:
  1. PApriuschic

    PApriuschic New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2019
    1
    2
    0
    Location:
    Wilkes-Barre, PA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    Did you know Pennsylvania is moving legislation forward that taxes electric vehicle/hybrid owners $250/yr for lost gas tax revenue? Voted on today 9/25. Call your reps today! This is insane!
     
    HPrimeAdvanced and noonm like this.
  2. huskers

    huskers Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    2,502
    2,432
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Backward thinking. But then that is the environment we live in today.
     
    HPrimeAdvanced likes this.
  3. crewdog

    crewdog Acting Ensign Prius Prime

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    492
    385
    6
    Location:
    Woodstock, GA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Georgia started charging $200 last year for EVs, not PHEV, but I think the math is faulty.

    If you take an average miles driven per year, the tax per gallon of gas, an average mpg for an ice vehicle, and do the math the fee in georgia for an EV comes out to be about twice the $/miles tax than what an ice vehicle is. Tried writing my state rep, but no response.

    I don't mind paying my fair share to use the roads, but twice the rate is just wrong.
     
    HPrimeAdvanced and PA Prius like this.
  4. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    3,931
    3,875
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    I’m not opposed to charging hybrid and EV owners more on the reg to make up lost fuel tax revenue, but $250/yr is too much.

    The hybrid we bought last year is denying the Commonwealth of about $45/yr in fuel tax revenue vs. the vehicle it replaced. And that’s on 30k miles per year utilization, much higher than average.
     
    PApriuschic likes this.
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    16,134
    7,501
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    How about Pa stops calling SUVs station wagons and charging them the lower car registration fee.
     
    HPrimeAdvanced likes this.
  6. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    3,931
    3,875
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    Sounds like a can of worms. An Excursion is a Pennsylvania station wagon because it’s an SUV, yet an Outback is a truck for federal CAFE purposes? Very convoluted.

    I still want something progressive on vehicle weight. Heavy trucks break roads.
     
    HPrimeAdvanced and Merkey like this.
  7. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    8,982
    10,991
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    Florida's state sales tax is 40 cents/gallon. So far, in Florida, I've bought about 24.1 gallons for my Prime since I got it in early March. That's less than $10 in state gas sales tax. That covered 5,367 miles. The same miles at 28 mpg would be over 191 gallons which would be $76.40 in state gas tax.

    Average those 6-1/2 months out over a year and I would have paid around $18.50 and at 28 mpg it would be a little over $140.

    Obviously, if I drove fewer miles I'd pay less and if I drove more miles I'd pay more. I know it costs money to keep the roads at an acceptable state of disrepair, but I can't see why the annual fee would be the same for a retiree who drives 5,000 miles a year as it is for a salesman who drives 100,000 miles a year.

    Also, it should be obvious that governments are not one bit interested in clean air. If they were, then the traffic lights would not be timed such that drivers spend the vast majority of their time either idling or accelerating. So, a disincentive tax on fuel efficient vehicles to maintain the roads should not be a surprise.
     
  8. Washingtonian

    Washingtonian Active Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    551
    483
    0
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    Just when I start thinking that my state has the lousiest politicians in the country, I can read Priuschat and feel much better.
     
    m.wynn, donbright, noonm and 3 others like this.
  9. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    8,982
    10,991
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    As I understand it, the word "politics" comes comes from combining the Greek word "poly" which means "many," with a kind of blood-sucking parasite.
     
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    16,134
    7,501
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    An article on this.
    Electric vehicle drivers in Pa. would pay $250/year fee under advancing state House bill | Pennsylvania Capital-Star
    And the actual bill.
    Bill Information - House Bill 1392; Regular Session 2019-2020 - PA General Assembly

    Apparently, plug in owners are already responsible for a road tax on electricity in Pennsylvania. The new fee was proposed because people weren't paying it out of ignorance, or the hassle of figuring out was owed and submitting it.




    Alternative Fuels Tax



    My annual commute is 13,800 miles. Under the current law I would owe $67.76 in Pa road taxes with a Model 3. I f I under the electric tax rate correctly, I would have also paid $36 to Pa for that electricity. In my Camry, the state gas tax is $238 for that commute. The proposed bill initially proposed a $150 fee. It also only applied to cars that got electricity from an outside source.
    Which was the supposed reason for charging trucks a higher registration fee. But the curb weight plus tow rating for a 2005 Crown Vic is a hundred pounds more than the highest gross combined vehicle weight of any Ranger from that year.

    The weight difference between a Prius c and an Excursion makes little difference to a road designed to handle commercial trucks. Winter does more damage than that weight difference.
     
  11. ice9

    ice9 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2019
    581
    334
    1
    Location:
    norfolk va
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Funny, but I don't think that's the Greek word for "blood-sucking parasite".

    I think you have the right idea tho. :cool:
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  12. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    8,982
    10,991
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    I didn't say it was the Greek word for blood-sucking parasite. I said it combines the Greek word for "many" with a blood-sucking parasite. But I'm glad you got the idea. (y)
     
    m.wynn, ice9, bisco and 1 other person like this.
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    90,840
    40,814
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    resistence is futile, just buy yourself a nice big gasser(y)
     
    m.wynn likes this.
  14. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    3,931
    3,875
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    Well if tax avoidance is your thing, a little gasser would be the answer.

    I outlined what our Prius did in replacing our Accent.

    But the real scandal was when I decided to use the Accent in place of our Outback- that deprived the state of $100/yr revenue on only 7000 miles per year. And it’s obviously not a hybrid, so the registration will stay cheap.
     
  15. Montgomery

    Montgomery Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    1,831
    1,870
    2
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    We all have our share of questionable politicians.
     
  16. Kenny94945

    Kenny94945 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    641
    329
    0
    Location:
    Sausalito
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Four
    Well, if every one drove electrics/ Hybrids where would the money come from to repair roads?
    Taxes...govrnmt needs somehow.
    I think this is fair tax if one drives.
     
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    16,134
    7,501
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    This isn't fair at all.

    With fuel taxes, the more you drive, the more you pay. Those that drive under 13,000 miles a year with this $250 tax are paying more than what an ICE pays. It also didn't take into account the state taxes residents pay on the electricity to charge their plug in.

    It also applies to hybrids without plugs. So it is on top of the fuel taxes they are paying, and not all hybrids are fuel misers that surpass ICE cars.
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  18. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    8,982
    10,991
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    Yup. It's just about as unfair as you can get.

    Edit to add. It's like an income tax that says, "Everybody pays $5,000 (or some other arbitrary amount) per year whether they earned nothing that year or a billion dollars."
     
    Rmay635703 and Andyprius1 like this.
  19. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    3,931
    3,875
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    At least the low fuel consumption reduces the cost of shopping out of state. I feel another New England beer run calling…
     
  20. Canby

    Canby Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2018
    7
    10
    0
    Location:
    Burlington, On
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    N/A
    When we charge our Prius Prime we pay taxes on the electricity and when using the ICE component, we pay taxes on the fuel as mentioned by others. Plus, we pay for our license plates and drivers permit. In fact, there’s a surcharge on fuel as part of our efforts to reduce our carbon imprint.

    We can charge in many municipal parking lots for free after 6 PM and on weekends but do pay for parking during normal weekly business hours. Plus, there are numerous other free charging options around such as shopping centres or business locations. Everyone, of these places pays taxes on the hydro power they use. Also, a number of businesses have charging stations where you have to pay and the prices vary from $1 per hour to $2.50 per hour and more in certain cases.

    We are also taxed municipally, pay income tax that goes to two levels of government and many other consumer taxes.

    Then governments give rebates when purchasing PHEV’s, Hybrids or Electric vehicles and when installing an EV charging system. The rebate system varies from province to province.

    Governments have to start thinking outside the traditional box about taxation of PHEV, Hybrid and Electric vehicles, no question about it and for obvious reasons. This is asking a lot from elected officials who do not understand the issues facing them in the quickly changing automotive sector.

    It’s not just a matter of consumption taxes but also where they put the money they already collect and how they use it. For example, our road maintenance and repairs in municipalities comes from property taxes with some assistance from the upper levels of government if a specific program exists. All other repair costs come out of our income tax and consumer taxes.

    Many governments both locally and at higher levels are promoting and investing in electric public transit systems. Those funds come from not only the users but general property or incomes taxes.

    I don’t claim to have all the answers but certainly a reallocation of the funds they collect is one of the best places to start. This will not be a short term remedy for anything but an ongoing process of other options yet to be put forward.
     
Loading...