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Prius PHEV with Aftermarket Brake Rotors and Pads | Regen energy gained while braking rate increased

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by black_jmyntrn, Feb 15, 2024.

  1. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    like the title states... after installing cross drilled and slotted rotors with ceramic pads, driving down hill on a steep road that I've driven for many decades... before the brakes, I could never generate more than .09 EV miles while braking. After the installation 1.4miles was obtainable and repeatable.

    now that I know there is a data field from the obd2 port that has "energy generated while braking" I have been logging the 2017 Prime I have for months, this way, once the new brake parts are installed, using a data visualizer ill be able to show the average of the EV miles generated show a significant increase over the OEM parts....

    and some say there is nothing better than OEM... ha, incorrect words those are!

    this is just one of the many things I personally discovered before anyone else... more to come on other unicorns I've found!

    prius upgraded brakes

    upload_2024-2-15_15-17-43.png
     
  2. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    What I've had slotted dimpled cross drilled rotors on my 2010 and 2013 since they came in the door here and the ceramic pads I'm using are I can't think of the name of the manufacturer right now they're lettering is a dark red purple color I even have the same rotors on the generation 2 just in the front till I can get the right setup for the rear disc and calipers for the two but they may never get done they last so long but yes I can date a log the regenerative power sent to the battery but for what ?
     
  3. Mr. F

    Mr. F Active Member

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    It's been over 7 months, no data to share yet?
    Their hypothesis is that aftermarket pads and rotors can increase the amount of regen. Still waiting for an explanation of the mechanics of how that would happen.
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    sounds like the 'worn pads reduce regen braking' guy
     
  5. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    Not yet, it's almost time to change them, the car is almost at 100k miles so right after that it'll be ready to swap new ones on.

    I call it the secret Toyota Sauce, there is still much about these cars the majority doesn't understand in the sense of modifying and with the knowledge gained within the modification to the by-products of non-OEM changes. I mean... my 2013 Plugin has just as much if not more range than a 2014 Prime after upgrading the HV batteries, If my theories are right, ill also pickup the EV power through the 80mph range and fast charging to achieve a full charge in 16 minutes. the Japan-spec ones can charge that fast... my guy in Japan right now is working to get the parts that are different between the US spec and Japan spec Primes.

    so to your point on the time it's taking.... is a moot point when yu are doing something no one else has or investigating the unknown!

    my theory... the better gripping braking system, increases the rate due to the better brakes. the PHEV has a data point called "energies generated while braking"... either brake fade over time cuts out ev miles generated thus the new parts would show a dramatic increase... or... it shows no decrease in this rate of energy over time then a spike after brakes installed. im sure there are other options I haven't thought of but... issa why Im going down this path, seeing what I experienced made me want to put some meat on the bones to see how or why I was able to set cruise at 69 in Colorado going down a long steep grade highway for many miles and when I got to the bottom and the highway was flat, my HV battery was fully charged and I had 14 miles of EV range. I've never before the brakes even charged that battery half way before...

    hey.... we will know once the data is analyzed one way or another! I guess to say are we that jadded by disappointments in society that why have no glimmer of hope for the option of good and prosperity to come from the unknown? You would think support, even if just mental was there for even attempting to back up statements made which would have a huge curve ball in what we know to believe about regen on a Prius PHEV....
     
    #5 black_jmyntrn, Feb 15, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2024
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  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    You wanna explain how brake pads affect regen braking please? Imma grab the popcorn.
     
  7. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    It's simple.
    It works just like putting a wind turbine on the roof so you can recharge the battery while you drive by connecting in to the regen from the wheels.
    Now you might think this is like perpetual motion...but I've collected months of data and once it is viewed in the data visualizer it will be obvious that Toyota has a secret sauce to make this work.

    Mike
     
  8. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    well since regenerative braking is a way of taking kinetic energy from the car's momentum and converting this into electricity... by the PHEV capturing the kinetic energy from braking and converts it into the electrical power that charges the vehicle's high voltage battery... plus Im not sure how just yet but planning to find out!

    Thats all I can say as well, I know this is happening as I've experienced it first hand, just need more data to confirm and show how it's happening.
     
  9. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Regen breaking is happening in the transmission my friend where the electric motors are where that kinetic energy that you're talking about is being made and dealt with right there at those motors The brake pads and fancy rotors have nothing to do with how money kilowatts you're going to regenerate because your foot's off the gas or partially on the brake pedal That's just not making good sense I mean you better look at the guy's videos from Florida He's handicapped You need to look and watch all of his videos about the Prius hybrid synergy drive and then get back I put the fancy rotors and pads on my 2013 persona the minute I got the car I had the stuff sitting out here in a box It has nothing to do with regenerating anymore kilowatts of any sort the hydraulic brake parts rotors pads none of it I'm sorry to say there's nothing happening with that I've had them on since I've had the car they have nothing to do with regen breaking or any of that.
     
  10. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    you realize... the PHEV is for the most part a different vehicle than the non PHEV... I've realized, there are many voices of reason yet, they said you can't use more than 1000W inverter on a Prius and I use two over 2000W without issues.... they said lifting a Prius more than 1.5" was bad for the suspension and Im well past that marker without issues. All the talks about what would be needed to upgrade the HV cells in my PHEV were also all wrong. Wait until I show you all what I've learned from this motor swap then proceed to swap the Hybrid Max motor in... heck, DOGMAN would bet his life on the fact Weathertech Floor Liners are the best ever on the market and now I don't trust a thing he says.

    sure, okay.. trying to use one PHEV module in my Gen 2, I did talk with someone who believes they can make me a compatible boost converter to boost the volts up to 207 but I'm not ready for that endeavor to go sideways and left it alone.

    It's also possible, that regen has nothing to do with the ev miles gained from braking and that my thought of higher performance components being tighter or grippier than OE would play a role in why I've seen a significant increase in the ev miles my car generates. it's like, at this point with basically most commenting here owning a non PHEV, there is no way for someone to say one way or another what the car is or can do just based on internet sleuthing or being a Toyo Master Tech. There is still much secret Toyota sauce we just dont know...
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    The phev is not different in method of regenerative braking afaik.
    As brake pads wear but are still within spec,
    The caliper closes, and brake power and reaction time should remain the same.

    I can’t wait for the data showing that improved braking friction increases electrical generation
     
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  12. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    The "brakes" do not charge the battery. Regenative "braking" does.
    When you remove your foot from the exelerator pedal, the car slows and turns the
    generators to charge the battery.
    It won't matter how thick or thin the pads or rotors are, it won't efect the charging.

    When I start coasting, in "b" mode, and just touch the brake pedal, the charging meter
    goes up. From what I have read, the computer understands this and applies more charging
    to the battery.

    If you use the engine to do more braking, the pads will last longer because they are not
    being used.
     
    #12 ASRDogman, Feb 16, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2024
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  13. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    Well... why would the car have this data?

    also... "It's estimated that most hybrids capture up to 90 percent of energy normally lost through heat during braking and use it to recharge the battery through electrical motor resistance, thus helping to preserve and replenish range in an electric or plug-in hybrid vehicle."
    upload_2024-2-16_12-41-57.png


    upload_2024-2-16_12-40-34.png
     
  14. Mr. F

    Mr. F Active Member

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    The x-axis legend is cut off; I assume its vehicle speed. The plots would make sense because there is no regen below about 10 MPH.
    Do you have the same plots from before the new pads/rotors were installed?
     
  15. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    That's the dilemma... the 2013 Pluginn where I noticed this and installed the after market parts.. nope... so now the 2017 Prime I'm logging now so that after the brake job is done ill take say a month's set of data before and after the installation with hopes it all makes sense.

    Screenshot_20240216_130912.jpg
     
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  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Yeah but regen is done with the electric motors and not the brake pads. That's how kinetic energy is converted into electrical energy and then potential energy. With brake pads, you're generating friction to slow the car down and "creating" heat as a by-product.
     
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  17. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    Hence why I'm wondering why the significant jump in EV miles was generated! I've never disputed the logistics of regen, I've simply stated what I observed and the plans to put some meat on the bones about how and the why... knowing we don't know a lot about the secret sauce... I'm not gonna put it past Toyota that this jump is attributed to the parts somehow...when I get the chademo charging components from a Japan spec Prime, itll be interesting to see how it all works in my Plug-in.

    I'm on the trail of something hot, what if I told you I had a fresh engine block analyzed to fix the maximum bore possible, and that it's been done. what if I said, just like upgrading my HV batteries, the system did its thing and recalculated things to boom! I didn't even need to mess with the BMS and i have the same and soon significantly way more EV range than even the new Gen 5 PRime.

    Did you see this response?

     
  18. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Yes because they don't generate that heat to begin with so there's not a lot of heat to worry with and how is heat going to be turned back into electricity to put in the p h e v or HV battery It's not It's just going to get cooled off by the wind The regen breaking is taking way up further up the line in the transmission It's not even getting to the wheels nothing happens at the wheels until your brake pedal is 3/4 or so of the way down then you're starting to move hydraulic fluid it seems like whatever heat your generating is getting cooled off by your antifreeze or ambient air blowing over it The hybrid synergy drive system can't capture heat if anything it would want to get rid of the heat.
     
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  19. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Data logging error ...or misinterpretation of the data.
    A carefully conducted experiment would show no difference, within the error rates of your measurements.

    Mike
     
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  20. PTS

    PTS Junior Member

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    Wow!

    Non linear thinking!

    Right on man!

    The inner energy of the brakes flows through a secret electrical path!

    Sorry, some whiner complaining about lithium again. A real downer!

    You are the man! Hopefully you are under thirty. Can’’t trust anyone over.

    All I can say is black_jmyntrn must have access to some good stuff!