Prius Plug-in Advanced vs Lexus ES 300h

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by jameskatt, Feb 17, 2013.

  1. mnml

    mnml Ain't nobody got time for that.

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    Try pricing it fully loaded since you're comparing it to the Advanced model of the pip.
     
  2. jameskatt

    jameskatt Member

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    In looking at other hybrids besides the Prius Plug-in Advanced, it is interesting to see that as the competition approaches the $40,320 price of the Prius Plug-in Advanced's 50 MPG, there is more difficult in choosing the PIP Advance.

    When you combine the competition's vehicle with the same driving techniques as driving the Prius - e.g. hypermiling and ecodriving - then you can get very similar efficiency.

    Only when driving in the battery's range does the PIP have an advantage. But when driving long distances and where recharging is limited, the competition can beat the Prius handily in driving with more comfort, luxury, quiet, and power.
     
  3. mnml

    mnml Ain't nobody got time for that.

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    FWIW, Lexus service is not always that great as you say. My 2006 IS350 had major recalls which they completely failed on repairing. One such repair was shotty which caused an oil leak from the engine cover. Long story short, they had to drop the motor out of the car in order to fix it. Our 2011 Rx350 went in for a 10K service but the tech forgot to use a new washer when replacing the oil which caused a small leak. Both service were done at 2 different dealership.

    Both the Lexus we have are some of the best cars we've owned but you can't generalize and say every Lexus service tech is so magical that the cars the work on come back like new. Mistakes happen but what they do to correct the issue speaks volume. This is where I think Lexus excel.
     
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  4. ny_rob

    ny_rob Senior Member

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    Why don't we use real world figures here if you don't mind...

    Last fall the 2012 Plug-in Prius (PIP) Base listed for $32,750
    Toyota Financing was offering a $5,000 discount to that price and 0% interest for 60 months.
    The fed gives you a $2,500 tax credit for the PIP.
    Our local electric supplier gives you a $500 rebate check for the PIP.
    Net cost (before tax & dealer fees) of PIP Base after all incentives, credits and rebates is $24,750
    My monthly MPG for the PIP (since I got it in Oct) has been 88mpg and 82mpg.

    So the PIP costs under $25k and gets 82-88mpg for the month.
    The Lexus ES 300h Hybrid lists for $39,725 and gets 40 MPG combined.
    The Lexus costs 63% ($15K) more and gets less than half the MPG of the PIP!

    Not a valid comparison.
    Troll on.....

     
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  5. rogerv

    rogerv Senior Member

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    I don't do it daily, but one of my regular trips is close to the OP's commute, mine being 90+ miles each way, with a top speed of 70, to save fuel and avoid tickets. I have the advantage of the HOV lane, which can save quite a bit of time. The main thing I would like to point out is that my mileage is usually in the area of 75 mpg each way, rather than the 50 I believe he used in his comparison. I have averaged 83 mpg's over nearly 12K miles since new. And the 11 EV miles he mentioned usually turns into 14-15 for me, with my PiP having even having gone 17 miles on EV one time. The PiP is very efficient at regeneration, which is reflected in the mpg's on freeway trips. It has a lot to do with how it is driven, of course, but total horsepower, etc. haven't been of concern to me as it apparently is to the OP.
    I agree that Lexus is a good car (I have an '02 LS430) and the dealer gives excellent service, but at a rather dear price. An oil and filter change now runs $64.95. The techs don't do anything special, the car is still tight and quiet in spite of its years on the road.
    I think that this is certainly a proper forum for the OP's question, however. How else would he get to read the other side of the argument?:)
     
  6. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Actually, the current version is third generation.

    The first used 2 NiMH packs in tandem with the Gen-II Prius ...never offered for sale but had real-world testing.

    The second used a 5.2 kWh sub-pack Li-Ion configuration with the Gen-III Prius ...never offered for sale but lots & lots of real-world testing by ordinary consumers.

    The third is what we have now, the first offered for sale and featuring a number of software & interface upgrades based upon the real-world data & feedback collected from the previous. The battery-pack was reduced to 4.4 kWh without loss of range.

    As for becoming a dinosaur & quickly, that's quite vague. Care to quantify?
     
  7. Kit Shah

    Kit Shah Kit Shah

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    If you want something that has the latest tech and HOV Lane access, get the Prius. If you want a comfortable cruiser, go for the Lexus.
     
  8. JMT

    JMT Junior Member

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    Why are you comparing the PiP Advanced to a "regular" hybrid? If you want to make a fair comparison, I think you should be comparing the Prius Five (closer to ~$30k) to these more luxurious hybrids. With the PiPs, you are paying extra for the plug-in capability, not luxury items.
     
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  9. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    The advanced model offers features like HUD, LED, DRCC, PCS, and synthetic leather heated seats... which have nothing to do with the plug. They are luxury items.
     
  10. JMT

    JMT Junior Member

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    Those are also offered on the Prius Five. I'm saying the OP really should be comparing the Prius Five (not the PiP base or Advanced) to the ES 300h.
     
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  11. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That sounds reasonable, but simply dismissing the smooth & silent of EV isn't constructive. It's a feature of appeal.
     
  12. ggood

    ggood Senior Member

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    I think OP's original point is less about particular cars and more about the total cost and degree of luxury features for that cost. I certainly thought about what else I could buy for the same amount of money when I decided not to buy last year. Without over $12,500 in new incentives, on top of the $2,500 tax credit, I never would have bought the PIP. It has the best combination of features for me at this point in time, but I would not have bought at the higher price; especially given the pace of tech in this area and the likelihood of more and better choices coming in the next few years. I love having at least some EV capability, but the EV range of the PIP is simply too small to be a very meaningful factor for the average car buyer.
     
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  13. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Perhaps in Texas where places are far apart. In my neighborhood, I can go breakfast, hair cut, mall then grocery shopping with a single charge. If I recharge back at home, I can do more trips in the same day.
     
  14. ggood

    ggood Senior Member

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    My daily commute and a lot of my small errands or shopping needs are within round trip reach. But yes, Houston is a very spread out city, where even a simple shopping excursion can be a 25 mile round trip. Double that to visit my brother in the suburbs. 50 miles 1 way to run down to the beaches in Galveston. Still, given my usual short trip driving (much fewer long trips these days), the EV mode is going to capture a very large portion of my driving.
     
  15. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    MKZ hybrid is a nice full hybrid, so is the Fusion hybrid rated 47 MPG combined. You are unlikely get those in the real-world. Fusion hybrid owners are getting about the same as Camry hybrid (~40 MPG) so I would think MKZ hybrid gets less.

    If you load up the Fusion Energi (plugin version), it reaches $42k. Why would anyone get Fusion plugin for $42k when you can get MKZ hybrid for $37k? See the problem with that?

    If you are going to compare, equip both vehicles the same and weight out the unique features. How much does the plug and EV miles worth to you?
     
  16. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Ditto here. My errand running during the warm season is all EV. Heck, even in the winter it is sometimes too. Living only a few miles from everyday needs is common in the suburbs.
     
  17. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Ditto. EV mode covers about 90% of my trips. However, the remaining 10% trips on gas are far (NJ or upstate) so I am hovering around 40% on EV and 60% on HV.

    I have seen many people overlooked and brushed off the benefit of 11 EV miles. Taking care of the short trip (MPG killer) without using gas is sweet. Even if you managed to start the ICE (for cabin heat or heavy acceleration), the worse I have gotten was 50 MPG -- due to EV-Boosted warm up.

    It really come to the commute pattern. If you don't have frequent short trips (5-10 miles) and unable to recharge at work, a regular hybrid is better for you. You might as well spend it on a better car with more luxury features.
     
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  18. mnml

    mnml Ain't nobody got time for that.

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    ^^ 100% agree. I would of purchased a CT200h if my work did not offer free charging. I'm currently averaging over 100 mpg. I don't think I can obtain those types of numbers with a hybrid as a daily commuter.
     
  19. JeffHastings

    JeffHastings Member

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    I'm sure an ES is MUCH nicer to drive than a Prius PIP but it's a question of priorities and for my money, I'd take the PIP Advanced to save me money in the long run. Nevertheless, the ES is surely a much nicer car to be in, pretty much across the board.
     
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  20. mnml

    mnml Ain't nobody got time for that.

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    I was being a bit sarcastic. But really, I would never buy an ES. We usually get one as a loaner when our RX or IS is in for service. The thing drives like a boat.
     
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