Prius Plug-in L2 charging current

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by pip2012, May 22, 2012.

  1. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Difficult to comment without more data from you:
    What is your driving style and driving pattern?
    What is the typical terrain looks like?
    What kind of traffic when in EV mode?
    What temperatures you are seeing these days?
    How long do you own the PIP and what was your previous car?
    Initially I would try these:
    In EV mode activate ECO mode and display the HSI, try to keep consumption on the HSI below the middle at all times except for emergency (if this is possible with the traffic). Decelerate and brake as early as possible.
    If you can do these for several charges, see if the estimate is climbing up (provided there is no big change in weather conditions).
    If you are new to PIP, please read the FAQs sticky thread of this forum.
     
  2. -1-

    -1- Don

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    :DCheer up, ain't so bad. You're getting an average of 9.8 miles EV more than most drivers. Nothing wrong with your Prius. Seriously, your situations sounds like mine. I've had my PIP since Jan 2013, use a Leviton Level 2 charger (16A) at home and a modified factory EVSE at work. The best EV charge and almost consistently this summer has been 10.1 miles EV. Ironically, my work commute is 9.8 miles. I believe it's a learned behavior? Lately, with cooler weather in the morning, I'm having to monitor my speed and adjust (down) to make the 9.8 mile one way commute. Evenings normally not a problem. My commute is about 85% interstate and my speed is a consistent 61-62 mph. I feel confident, if more rural, and a much lower speed, my EV range would improve. The average PIP driver will never be a "high roller" (EV mileage) unless you have ideal conditions and employ every trick in the book to maximize EV and HV mileage. My PIP's EV percentage is high (80%) while my overall EV MPGe (105.1) is relatively low.

    Stop, I want to get off. I love my PIP, and it's fun to drive, but at what cost? Like others, I'm been some what consumed to maximize my EV and HV mileage, make every work commute in full EV, etc. I'm at a cross road and need to just drive reasonably and let my Prius do it's thing. Not too fast, not too slow, just easy as she goes. Sound logic that I'm going to apply.
     
  3. Tonski

    Tonski New Member

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    Hi Giora, sorry I wasn't clearer - my only concern is initial charge of the battery- Assume full charge overnight and turning car on without any lights, ac, etc. The highest charge I've been able to get is 9.8. Most users are reporting 13.3 to 13.8 upon start up. Does that help clarify my question? This has been the same at any chargers and since day 1 off the lot for 12 mos.
     
  4. Tonski

    Tonski New Member

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    Thanks Don, I appreciate your reply and love my PIP. I just want the same initial charge other drivers are reporting - 13.3 to 13.8 - rather than only 9.8. Sometimes I charge twice a day, so that could be an extra 7-8 EV miles per day! Since Toyota advertises 15 EV range, it just doesn't seem right to be stuck with a bum battery. It apparently tested out fine yesterday at dealership, and they claim they got it to charge up to 11.
     
  5. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That's normal for plug-in vehicles. It's why charge-to-80-percent is so often quoted. That's the capacity which the highest speed charging can used without sacrificing batter longevity. Above that level, it ramps down the rate at which electricity is drawn to ease the burden on the chemicals within.

    Observant owners with L1 chargers at home take advantage of that knowledge. Being aware that waiting for the final part of recharging isn't required comes in handy. New owners assume the charging rate is linear, having no idea a large portion of the capacity is replenished right away. So, they wait the entire time.

    Good job on the observation, right away too. And it's more difficult to notice that difference with a L2 charger. I'm sure there plenty of other owners out there who won't make that same discovery for a very long time... or ever. You now know the system is more dynamic than many realize. Sharing tips like this add to ownership experience. Go ahead, unplug before recharging is complete.
     
  6. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    There are countless threads about the misconceptions of how EV range is estimated & delivered.

    At this point in the year, maximum is no longer available for those seeing temperatures near freezing. That's how batteries work. Capacity is reduced and electrical resistance increased. Of course, cold affects engines too. So, the end of the warm season efficiency is nothing new.

    Remember that Prius PHV isn't an electric-only vehicle. It's a PLUG-IN HYBRID. So even when EV numbers goes down, you're still getting the benefit of the plug-supplied electricity. Those miles are simply counted as HV instead. We call that blending EV-BOOST mode. It's what normally happens when driving at speeds above 62 mph. But with the engine starting more often due to the cold temperatures, you'll see it happen when going slower too.

    In short, stop focusing on the EV number. Expectations should be on the resulting MPG. Notice that it's still well above what a Prius without a plug could deliver.
     
  7. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    I watched mine go up & down on a regular basis. Others have been reporting numbers all over the place too. There is no standard value.

    ESTIMATE (just a computer guess) varies quite a bit based on previous driving, which is different for everyone.

    RANGE (what you actually get) varies even more, since driving conditions can very dramatically.
     
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  8. DadofHedgehog

    DadofHedgehog Active Member

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    +1 to the above John1701A posts.

    A very common conceptual mistake is to interpret battery "EV miles available" as a fixed rational unit of measure, such as gallons or liters are for volume, or miles or meters are for distance. Rational units of measure are all alike, i.e. the 1st gallon of gasoline in your tank is exactly the same by volume as the last gallon of gasoline (assuming an eight gallon PiP fillup). "EV miles available" is not/not a rational unit of measure - it is an estimate of how far you will drive based on A). the state of charge of the traction battery, and B). what the PiP computer algorithm has learned so far about your driving style. Think of it as the car's best guess that day.

    The state of charge of a large battery is not/not measured in rational units of volume, i.e. gallons. It is a degree of change in the battery's chemical state. Our individual driving styles also vary greatly from driver to driver, from route terrain to terrain on another route, and on weather temperature, and each trip will alter the PiP algorithm's calculations. Finally, our driving style as PiP owners is not static - this car with all the feedback information displays can and does evolve how we drive, over time. There's a thread on it here somewhere.

    So, it is almost pointless to read the "EV miles available" display as anything other than a 80% guesstimate. I'll bet that by Spring 2014 you will beat the EV range displayed at start, just by having adapted your driving style to the PiP. The only reliable way I've found to measure how far my EV miles last is by using the trip meter, and the longer I own the car the longer my EM miles last per trip, no matter what the "EV miles display" guesstimates as I get in the car in the morning.

    Enjoy the car. There is nothing wrong with its battery or its charger.
     
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  9. Michael33

    Michael33 Member

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    If you aren't used to driving an EV, or at least another Prius, you are probably accelerating too hard to get optimum range. Try imagining a raw egg between your foot and the gas pedal, and coast a *lot*.
     
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  10. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That is an excellent point.

    Back when Toyota was rolling out the early model of plug-in to ordinary consumers for review, a common discussion was on how EV capacity should be represented. Most with EV background stated range in terms of PERCENT was their preference. That made sense too, since most addresses the most misconception. However, it is still misleading. Driving fast. Accelerating often. Using the Heater or A/C. They all have a big influence on outcome.

    Add to that the confusion new models introduce. An increase in kWh would result in much more EV, but that wouldn't be represented by a PERCENT value. It would contribute to problems in the future. That's why Toyota chose to use MILES instead. The number still misrepresents, but it gives a better idea of what you might get.

    It's too bad many people don't realize MPG in their traditional vehicle fluctuates too. Have a display that provides on-going detail about efficiency is a mixed blessing. The consumers who were used to just filling up their tank with gas every 300 or so end up struggling to interpret the wealth of information the regular Prius provides. Adding a plug complicates matters. The come from a world filled with assumptions.

    We introduce them to new concepts. That takes time & patience to get through. Some, like the poster who recently revived this thread, assumed there was something wrong and brought his Prius to the dealer feeling lost and unhappy.
     
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  11. SimiPrius

    SimiPrius Member

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    Is the 9.8 with the air on? The terrain that you drive will impact your range. And the computer uses a very long cycle to manage the estimate. I had the same issue. On my way home daily, I have about a 2 mile area of a slight incline. I suspected this was limiting my range. To test the system, I turned off the EV mode about a mile before I hit the incline. Each day I saw the range increase by one or two tenths. Over a 6 week period, I got the range all the way to 16 when I started the car in the AM.
     
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  12. Lourun

    Lourun Member

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    Best I've gotten is 12.3 now on the cooler weather with absolutely no other changes I'm getting 10.4 indication, before I start to drive.
     
  13. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    But the others would get 9.8 if they drove YOUR route the way YOU do.
     
  14. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Thursday night I had to do some running around town. The EV range was showing 10.7 miles after charging. When I got home, I drove 10.6 miles and the range indicator showed I had 2.2 miles of range left. I don't worry about it. :D
     
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  15. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    I've gotten at most 12.2 in the summer and dropped to 9.6 during the winter. And then back up to 12.2. I have seen where I had parked the car after a very cool morning on the way to work and when I got back in during lunch after it had warmed up got an extra .3 miles. So yeah I don't worry about it. I use only the L1 charger BTW.


    iPad ? HD
     
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  16. Tonski

    Tonski New Member

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    Thank you for the tips Simi. We live in Portland, so rarely use the ac, and I have a flat city commute of 5 miles each way. We've had the PiP for one year and it's never varied from the 9.3 to 9.8 EV reading, except at dealership 2 days ago where they claim it read 11. No one at the dealership taught us or appears to know about the cycle/ driving history/ weather factors. However, I do wonder why their sales mgr admits getting 13.8 EV readout (same time of year/ same temps). I will make it a challenge to adjust my driving style long term and see if that can help. Avg mpg has been about 52-54. Excited to read more and continue learning :)
     
  17. Tonski

    Tonski New Member

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    Thank you Michael!
     
  18. Tonski

    Tonski New Member

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    Thank you Dadofhedgehog for teaching me these concepts!
     
  19. Tonski

    Tonski New Member

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    Excellent points John! Thank you for taking the time to explain :)
     
  20. Tonski

    Tonski New Member

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    Re-read your post after learning more and it makes a lot of sense. Thank you!
     
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