Prius Prime - official prices paid thread

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Will_Prius16, Dec 20, 2016.

  1. Square2

    Square2 New Member

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    Note to moderator regarding my last post: I'm awaiting a few calls from dealers, and might finalize soon - so it would be awesome if you could post soon as possible so I would be reassured. If that request is really annoying and a breach of posting etiquette, please ignore it and forget I ever asked! Thanks.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Yes , the credit is good in 2019. You can find info here.

    Sales weasels don’t mention it because they don’t care, are ignorant, and would rather sell you a gasser.
    All the best with your purchase, don’t forget the $5,000. Toyota rebate, and a few thiusand dealer discount!(y)
     
  3. Square2

    Square2 New Member

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    Thanks for the quick reply!

    Just got a final deal. How does this sound to you?
    2018 Prius Prime Plus
    MSRP: $28,528
    Customer cash: - 5,000
    NYS Drive Clean: - 1,100
    Dealer Savings: - 1,543
    Total before TTL: $20,885
    (And with tax credit 16,383)

    Govt fees: 122
    Proc/doc fees: 76
    Total taxes: 2,198
    OTD price $23,283 (not incl. tax credit)

    This was their first offer, then I asked for $1,000 more dealer discount, and they replied:
    "Our price is already under cost so I unfortunately can not discount the Prius Prime any further. Out of curiosity how did you arrive at that price?"

    Don't know what I'll say to the last question, but that sounded final enough that it's not worth pushing?
     
  4. pghyndman

    pghyndman New Member

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    Perhaps just being tad cautious in such a litigious world, as there are qualifications necessary to get the credit and the amount one might get. You must actually have enough taxes due from which the credit will be deducted: if you do not owe taxes, you have nothing to deduct it from, ergo the credit will be zero. If you do not owe enough you may only get a portion of the credit. IE: if you only owe $2000, you would not get more than $2000 credit. Again, this is a non-refundable credit (excess cannot be carried over to another tax year). Lastly, at some point the Manufacturer may hit the maximum credit quota*.

    A potential quagmire if everyone demanded the sales people make good for the full amount.

    *
    Credit Phaseout
    The credit for vehicles with at least four wheels is subject to a phaseout (reduction) once the vehicle manufacturer (or, for a foreign manufacturer, its U.S. distributor) sells 200,000 of these vehicles to a retailer for use in the United States after 2009. The phaseout begins in the second calendar quarter after the quarter in which the 200,000th vehicle was sold. Then the phaseout allows 50% of the full credit for 2 quarters, 25% of the full credit for 2 additional quarters, and no credit thereafter.
     
  5. noonm

    noonm Junior Member

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    My guess is partly because they don't know about it (Toyota really isn't big on EVs) and because they don't know how much would apply to you (you need at least $4502 in tax liability to take the full credit). If you've done or planning to do your 2018 taxes soon (as I did) you can check your tax liability and see if its over $4502 as a rough estimate for next year (presuming you don't have wild fluctuations in your income and/or deductions).
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    It’s always worth pushing. Their question means they trying to figure out how savvy you are, and how much shopping you’re doing.

    Get quotes from as many dealers as you’re willing to go to
     
  7. ardashev

    ardashev Junior Member

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    it is an almost too good to be true price for NY, I would make sure there are no scratches on the car, and it has not fallen of the delivery truck, was fixed up and presented as new.
     
  8. kevin.c

    kevin.c New Member

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    Why is it too good to be true? The base price seems close to MSRP, then 5k mfgr rebate for helping them clear 2018 inventory on the east coast.
     
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  9. ardashev

    ardashev Junior Member

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    Try getting one - and you would know why :)
     
  10. Viperman92

    Viperman92 Junior Member

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    How about replying with words instead of trying to be vague and mysterious?

    I had a few quotes from that region. Seems to be about standard.
     
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  11. Square2

    Square2 New Member

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    Thanks for all your interesting and helpful comments regarding my offer (which didn't happen) of 20,885 for a Prime Plus (before TTL and tax credit), $23,283 OTD (before tax credit).

    I'm starting to agree with Ardashev's last post, which said: "Try getting one and you would know why" it seems too good to be true.

    So, I am not yet a Prius Prime owner. For any who might be interested, here's what's happened so far. I'd be interested in any comments from any of you more experienced negotiators who might have insights into the mysterious world of car salesmen, and what I might do better.

    (Side note: my initial post here was about an offer and not a final price paid - being new to all this, it did occur to me that by posting it I could be alerting someone who wanted the same car and could easily locate it and snatch it up, maybe by offering a slightly higher price, but I figured such a motivated person could have already found the deal on their own, so what the heck. It also occurred to me that dealers might read this site, which feels weird.)

    Episode 1: Even though I knew the above offer for a Prime Plus might be a great deal for me when you factor in the tax credits, etc., and that there are few of these cars left, I held out for more dealer discount than their offer of -$1,543 . (All this was via email.) This took into the next day and in the end this dealer, call it Dealer #1, wouldn't budge. I said by phone I'd take the initial offer and would head to the dealer. She said wait a second, there's a customer in here asking about the car, better hurry. Well, whatever, but anyway, enroute she called to say oh well that customer had left a deposit. She did mention the more expensive Premiums they had but it was not strong sales attempt. I figure if this had been a real bait and switch, they would have allowed me to come to the dealership. So I take it on face value that I lost a potential good deal, maybe by taking a bit too long. (This dealership had been the most responsive, specific, and businesslike, so I kind of liked them so far. I think they may have been the only one to have explicity included the $1,100 NYS rebate in their initial price. Most or all of the others didn't mention it, and one even said after I pointed out there was a rebate, that they don't take it off the price, that's through the state, as if after buying the car I had to apply to the state, which I don't think is true.)

    Episode 2: This was more of a doozy, to me. The day before, I had gotten an offer to match #1's price from a Dealer #2, once I provided written proof of the offer. I didn't bother to send it yet, but when Deal #1 fell through, I emailed a copy of Deal #1's offer sheet to Dealer #2, and verified they would match the OTD price as they had said they would the day before. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at it strictly I figure I had no real ethical obligation to inform Dealer #2 that Dealer #1 no longer had the car I wanted. Yes, it would be sleazy for me to have initially pretended I had that price for a real car with #1 if I didn't, but that offer was real and I had represented it in good faith, and I figured once #2 had said they would match the price, an offer's an offer whatever happens with my other deals?)

    As a footnote, I had (foolishly?) told #1 who #2 was when #1 told me the car was gone and she asked about who I had the matching deal with (I had mentioned #2's match to try to get #1 lower). If these dealers sometimes communicate, it occurred to me #1 could always call #2 to say hey just so you know, this guy who might come over no longer has an option here. Thoughts?

    So I went over to Dealer #2 after verifying my specific OTD price via email, and they found a non-internet live salesperson for me. I noticed, though it may not be relevant, that he was not acting like any car salesman I had ever met - he seemed uncomfortable and tentative, like he was not particularly happy having me there. He asked for my copy of #1's offer, went to the manager, came back and said we can't do this offer, this car is Blizzard Pearl white or whatever, it's more expensive. But their offer via emails both a half hour before and the day before for the same car was clear. (I now know that Blizzard White might cost more, but that's not the point.) Now they said the paint was $395 more, but the offer they printed out was a lot more, with the $5K and $1100 off but virtually no dealer discount at all. When I asked was it just about the paint he said well maybe paint and mats - now everything was becoming fuzzy. The sales manager came in and said can't go lower despite what the internet person said, but we can order you a non-white one - it would take weeks - for $100 less than your price from #1. Good price but now at this point 1) I don't trust what they say 2) they're offering to order a 2018 Prime car in trim that is barely out there anymore, if at all, and why would I commit to that now and leave off looking for this car when they could take my deposit but come back in a few weeks when all 2018's are gone and say sorry, couldn't find one. If I trusted them, that ordering thing might have seemed like an option if I just couldn't find anything myself. (It does seem likely I won't find anything.)

    They didn't try to talk up the Blizzard Pearl car at all and the weirdest thing happened next. After both manager and sales guy left and the sales guy came back, I was saying how I thought they should honor their offer but anyway neither option works for me now if you won't budge on the white car, and he said in a halfhearted, very faraway voice: "Oh by the way, did we tell you we found out that car was sold?" This does not strike me as a large dealership or chain, it is not believable to me that neither the internet salesperson nor the manager nor the sales guy knew this car was gone until the moment I was leaving.

    I am now trying to make sense of what was really going on, and would be happy to hear your thoughts. My possible explanations: most charitable one, woeful "miscommunication" regarding a deal they couldn't come down on, and unbelievable miscommunication regarding whether the car was even available or not. Doesn't seem likely to me. More likely seems some kind of bait and switch was in effect at some point during the process. Most extreme possibility, the car was gone from the start and they said get him involved, see what else he might go for. But it is also possible that it became sold during the process and they said well, try to get him in here anyway, we'll present a price for this (sold) car that he won't take, and if he does we'll say oops, it's sold, and maybe we'll try to get him to "order" one, and see where that goes. But it is also quite possible that the car was there all the time, that they were open to the possibility of honoring their offer for most of the process - that is, if nothing better came along - but perhaps even as I was driving over they snagged a better offer for them, perhaps via internet, which is their right, as there was no deposit nor formal agreement other than via email. Since I was obviously a highly budget-minded customer (the only reason I'm looking at these cars now is the incentive and rebates might save me more money than waiting a year or two to buy a new car) their job was then basically to get rid of me, which would be consistent with the lackluster attitude and lack of any attempt to sell me, say, a higher trim or other car, other than ordering a Prime through them.

    Still, if that were the case I would trust them more if they had old me Hey, sorry you had to come up here, we did intend to honor our offer, but just now we got a higher price from someone, and we are a business, so we have to take that. Instead they said the internet person's offer was not accurate from the start - so now how can I trust what they say? If I go with this last most innocent explanation, and if I can't find anything else, it occurs to me today that ... maybe ... I could live with going back to them and try the ordering thing, but that seems a bit Fugazy to me, and I'm a little burnt out from this now, and I'm not sure there are any Prime Pluses around anymore anyway, whatever the internet says, with the $5k incentive.

    This might seem boring or old hat to you, but to me it's actually been kind of fascinating, if frustrating, and I am interested in anyone's experiences or advice.
     
  12. noonm

    noonm Junior Member

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    My view is to treat car shopping like an interview. If you are getting a not so great impression of the person (saleperson/dealership/etc) your interviewing, you don't proceed.

    Also, like looking for a place to rent/buy, if you can't show me the exact item I'm planning to buy, I'm not trusting you to deliver on your promise sometime in the future.

    The downside to following these rules is that you'll likely pay a little bit more as reputable and trustworthy places do command a premium, but I find it worth it as it helps minimize the uncertainty in car buying.
     
  13. Square2

    Square2 New Member

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    Good advice.
     
  14. lextoy

    lextoy Member

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    maybe they meant that they found out the original car at dealer one was sold. once you showed them the paperwork they could call over to confirm, and then found out it was sold to someone else, likely at a much higher price. once they figured that out, they reneged on everthing, and were not interested in making any deal with you. as they get suckers every day who have no clue and can hold out for higher prices on these cars :(
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    from the 2600 odd posts here, $1,500. off in ny is pretty common. it's not a bottom line. the msrp varies by package, options and dealer add ons.
     
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  16. ardashev

    ardashev Junior Member

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    oh man,I could not finish your post - but I hope I got the drift: You do not have to provide any kind of proof to any dealer whatsoever.
    You tell them: here is my "price" - take it or leave it. If they agree - you still leave and ask dealer #2 for "price-X". If they agree you go to dealer #1 and ask for "price-X*2" and you do that till you get tired :) - and then you buy the car and post your price :) but of course - you better hurry - 2018-s are going out fast...
     
  17. ardashev

    ardashev Junior Member

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    1500 off wasn't happening on Long Island last month when I was shopping... maybe Upstate NY.... in the woods...:)
     
  18. ardashev

    ardashev Junior Member

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    Have I mentioned: You talk OTD price ONLY. I liked Penn Toyota slogan : " no penny more - no penny less" - I bought the car from them
    ( in hindsight) probably because they were not f* with me on stupid hidden or not "fees".
     
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  19. Square2

    Square2 New Member

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    Lextoy, I never thought of that. Now it makes more sense.

    Thanks Bisco and everyone else for your advice - it gave me more confidence in dealing with these people.

    I was bummed and burnt out and looking forward to extending my 2002 Echo's life for at least another year, but I got a second wind, found a Prime Plus similar to the one I had lost, got a deal for a bit more but maybe it's still pretty decent, and drove it home today. (I'm behind the times: you can start a car just by just pushing a button?...)

    MSRP: $28,311

    After $5k, $1100 NY rebate, a small dealer discount:

    21,495

    OTD price: 23,904

    We can take advantage of the $4500 tax credit next year, which I think of as bringing the total down to

    19,402 (incl. TTL)

    So far I love the car.
    See you on other forums.
     
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  20. lextoy

    lextoy Member

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    thats still a good deal, and its a real one !! some of the other prices would have been nice, but as you see, they cant be gotten in real life. the sales scumbags do this every day and are professional con artists, we are just nice people trying to not get ripped off too bad. they always win !! trick is you got the car with great manufacturer rebate, state incentive, dealer incentive, and you still get a federal tax credit! that wont all be there in a year or two. basically you drive the car for two years, and its still worth what you paid for it. now sell your hooptie and knock off another 2k !!
     
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