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Prius Prime Plus in my hands

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by bwilson4web, Jan 19, 2017.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The trick is the standard defines how to run the tests on a smooth, flat, concrete or asphalt road. It also specifies the speed range, temperature, and acceptable wind conditions. It is not that hard of a problem. Thanks to @bhtooefr, I was able to find the SAE standard although I've not bought my copy, yet.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. EV-ish

    EV-ish Active Member

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    Do you mean that SAE provides a value to use based on the type of road ? If so, it seems an easy way to game the test.
     
  3. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    As a quick hack, I took the 2017 metrics and selected all hybrids and unique test cars. Then calculating the HP @65 mph, generated this chart using the 'Target' coefficients:
    [​IMG]
    I need to re-read the difference between 'set' and 'target' coefficients. Regardless, this gives a ranking of the power needed at 65 mph. Apparently the Accord had two different test vehicles with identical power required. The same is true with the Volt.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  5. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    What's up with there being two Prius entries? Is one a Prius c, or is that actually two different Liftbacks?
     
  6. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Perhaps Eco & non-Eco?
     
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  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I was surprised to not see the "Prius c" in the 2017 data but that is not unusual as models that have not changed are omitted. Yet there was a Prius v. Look at #55 and pull down a copy of the raw data from the EPA web site.

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    My first daily commute in the new car:
    • warm-up for MPG - still appears to take ~3 miles in 55F weather. I will have to do more tests but that was my impression.
    • 28 mph minimum cruise control speed w/o radar target - happily there is no evidence of the drop-out seen in the Gen-3 Prius.
    • dynamic cruise control - works great but when the school bus turned into a neighborhood, the cruise control dropped out instead of resuming to the set speed.
    • Holy Carp is it efficient - seriously without plugging in, this car is awesome and much better than our Gen-3 Prius.
    Now I will revert to our BMW i3-REx for my daily driver but this car appears to be a peer. It means if the BMW takes an extended stay at 'the spa', there will be little or no hit on driving costs. Better still, my hard requirement of reaching Nashville:
    model speed MPG
    1 BMW i3-REx 65 mph 40 MPG
    2 BMW i3-REx 70 mph 38 MPG
    3 BMW i3-REx 75 mph 32-34 MPG with 20% SOC loss per tank; the 5th tank becomes speed limited to 65-70 mph or even lower
    4 Prius Prime Plus 70-75 mph ~55 MPG with a stable SOC

    The BMW i3-REx can reach Nashville or pretty much any distance needed with ~80 mile segments at ~40 MPG @65-70 mph. In contrast, the Prius Prime will reach Nashville at a faster speed and better MPG. Although I appreciate the EV capability, recharging on a cross-country trip stretches the block-to-block time to unreasonable values. You really have to treat cross-country as a gas engine performance metric to keep the trip time reasonable.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  9. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    No hybrid Camry either.
     
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  10. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Now I'd doubly confused.

    The Code of Federal Regulations, on which the EPA says they base their testing, doesn't include the linear coefficient:

    eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations

    (a)(1) Road load as a function of speed is given by the following equation:


    F = A + CV^2

    (2) The values for coefficients A and C and the test inertia are given in Figure F98-9 of this section. Velocity V is in km/h and force (F) is in newtons. The forces given by the equation in paragraph (a)(1) of this section shall be simulated to the best ability of the equipment being used.
     
  11. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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    This thread is page 7 on google seach, link below page 13. sae j2263 pdf
    SAE 2263-1996-10 On win. desktop web page needing flash to show doc. Android just shows doc. Need to slide sideways to see other pages. Good luck running these tests. Everglades has flatest roads in the country I think. Just one 30 ft bump in the middle of 90? miles.
    http://m.doc88.com/p-418995518844.html


    http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/hev/htp001r2.pdf
     
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Just ran 10.8 miles on a loop at 28 mph, the slowest the cruise control would hold: 105.5 MPG. Temperature 61F (not quite standard range.)

    Bob Wilson
     
    #72 bwilson4web, Jan 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
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  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I need to do a few warm-up tests but it looks like:
    • 105.5 MPG * 11.4 gal ~= 1,202 miles / tank @28 mph
    • 1,202 / 28 mph ~= 42 hours
    • 2,789 miles ~= City Hall, New York City, NY to City Hall, Los Angeles, CA
    Hummmmmm, I have an idea.

    Bob Wilson
     
  14. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Hummm, New York to Los Angeles @28 mph...your days (sunrise to sunrise) will consist of more than 24 hours each...don't forget to include this in your calculations:)
     
    #74 giora, Jan 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
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  15. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Also consider that you'd encounter terrain, which will bring engine load higher and might actually increase efficiency by improving BSFC/requiring less battery charging to maintain optimal BSFC on a climb, and then allow engine off/more battery charging on the descent.

    One annoyance, however, in this situation is that, at least on a Liftback, cruise control will use engine braking as it deems appropriate, rather than ramming everything into the battery, or gaining kinetic energy. Prime may be better in this regard.
     
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  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The tallest, local hill is 525 ft with an 8% grade. Certainly worth experimental verification.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  17. Samprocat

    Samprocat Active Member

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    Great interior layout. Wonderful screen suite with lots of options on info to display. Really like the 11" screen with ability to have map on top half and something else on bottom with music title and artist along very bottom. Speedometer in middle of dash works well and helps inside of vehicle seem even more roomy. Driver cockpit is spacious and well designed (I'm a 6'2" man with a few extra pounds on my frame). Gas savings work like a charm. Babying it, I'm able to get a combined 58 mpg (based on real miles divided by gas put into tank and not just the trip computer which can suffer from 1/x issues for small x for even average trips ~40 miles where x is the gas consumed). And this is all with no cutting on anything to make more MPG....and no following behind big trucks or going slow speed.....highway speed 70+ MPH
     
  18. nwmountaineer

    nwmountaineer New Member

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    Congratulations - they are an amazing value! I have very happy with mine - which I have had for two weeks.
     
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    So Tuesday morning I began mapping a new commuting route:
    [​IMG]
    I call this file, 'prime_1k_010.jpg':
    • mostly posted 25 mph in neighborhoods
    • limited, four-lane, under used routes
    • all very compatible with 28 mph cruise control

    Bob Wilson
     
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    [​IMG]
    • 10.5 miles @28 mph -> 105.5 MPG
    • 1200 miles @65 mph -> 55.7 MPG
    Close enough,
    Bob Wilson
     
    #80 bwilson4web, Jan 25, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017