Prius Prime to the Rav4 Prime

As best I can tell, never mind the dealers, Toyota corporate has no intention of offering them anywhere in Washington State at this time.

Early on, it appeared that Toyota was planning to send RPs only to ZEV states, to get those ZEV credits. Washington State didn't join the ZEV club until June 11 last year, well after it was quite clear that demand would be greatly exceeding supply. Since then, I've seen no indication of Toyota updating its plans to include Washington.

And every time and place I've checked West Coast inventory, none are coming without the 'optional' $1665 Weather/Moonroof package. Thus no chance of a sub-$40k MSRP.

 

Yeah, with other tax credits applied first, I will not likely have enough tax liability to claim a full $7500 tax credit if I buy a BEV (or PHEV with a larger battery). If I decide to buy a BEV or PHEV with a potential $7500 tax credit, I will have to do some creative financing to make sure I will have more tax liability for that tax year. PP's $4500 tax credit is a sweet spot for me and many others. And here in the NE area, I can claim it year after year by trading in 1-year-old PP to a new one for a profit.

 

Even for the non-refundable credits, credit like solar panel credit which can roll-over to next year is applied before the EV credit, making it difficult to claim the full extent of credit if you have multiple credits to be used for the tax year.

 

That's why I had to cancel my solar project for this year. I'm not throwing $4,500 out the window just to have solar 6 months earlier. It was scheduled before I knew I was ditching the Leaf and getting another Prius.

 

Same here. I had an initial plan in 2017 when I purchased a PP and thought again last year after purchasing 2020 PP, but after doing math, it did not come out in my favor. Now I have largely abandoned the PV project for our current home. Even with a full tax credit of 22% for this year, my cost will be close to $30K upfront capital investment which will take ~15 years to recover. I am sure I can do much better with the money invested elsewhere.

 

It's 26% for the next three years. They extended it in December.

 

Did it pass during the last administration? I read somewhere about the extension proposed by the new administration (D) and new majority congress (D), but I thought it has not been passed yet.

 

I'm kind of playing the devil's advocate here...I seem to do that a lot...for better or worse. However, I just want to make people aware of the crappy HV highway mileage of the Rav4 Prime . I'd wager at least some around here were as shocked as I was when I found out about it....or maybe it's just me! BTW - it also seems like Toyota engineered the Rav4 Prime for 'horsepower and acceleration' over efficiency a bit...bit that needs more research. I'd take the Rav4 over the Jeep any day though...for sure.

You are spot on with your statement about why the Rav4 keeps getting larger and larger. Unfortunately, automakers seem to be falling into the 'all Americans think bigger is better' BS. And that is why I mentioned I'm a bit miffed that the Yaris Cross isn't coming to the USA. I guarantee there are ( or will be ) lots of Americans interested in a vehicle like the Yaris cross...especially if fuel prices keep rising!

 

I poked around a bit on other forums...and I'm finding quite a few folks getting *under* the EPA on the highway during road trip type situations. And it is even more pronounced when your EPA highway MPG is only 36...ouch! Yeah...they seemed to be pretty disappointed. I guess with a vehicle like the RAV4, you can't have it all like you can with the Prius...for all the reasons we have been discussing.

 

Yes. Trump signed it.

 

Are there any reasonable options to make a Roth conversion of traditional IRA or 401k funds to generate the needed taxes? Without crossing sizeable marginal tax bracket boundaries, of course.

Do you place any non-zero value on doing your part to alleviate Climate Change? Or are raw dollar savings the only criteria for this project?

 

It would be a good time to cash out some things with a tax liability if that's something you need to do anyway.

Considering my grid usage amounts to about 2.5 tons of CO2 annually given my utility's current mix, I'm not valuing my contribution at $2,000 per ton per year.

 

I would love to have a plug-in hybrid mid-size SUV or minivan with Rav4 Prime class mileage. Yeah, the newest Highlander Hybrid and Sienna (hybrid) both make 35-36mpg, but they are not plug-ins. Rav4 Prime is too small for our needs, which leaves only Pacifica Hybrid (Plug-in) for us. It only gets 29 city / 30 highway mpg, but that's still better than our current Pathfinder Hybrid 25 city / 28 highway. The PathHy is still an upgrade from our previous 2005 sienna mpg of 19 city / 26 highway. If Toyota makes Highlander or Sienna in Plug-in, that's what we want, but for now, we will settle for Pacifica Hybrid for our hauler.

 

Wow! I just checked it. I don't watch or read political news, but now I can look it up and see it was true. I see, it was included in the COVID-19 relief bill. If I heard that news back in Dec, I would have dismissed it as FAKE NEWS. LOL

Yep, there is some creative financing I can do to take advantage of larger than a usual tax credit. Roth conversion would be one way, but not easy for me since I don't own a traditional IRA nor 401k. In any case, it can be done but it requires careful planning to pull it off.

For greener electricity, I am already getting 100% renewable energy at the source by paying an extra premium. And I signed up for the upcoming community solar share. When the project is completed later this year, my electricity will be 100% solar at the source, and it will cost me ~23% less than the current electric bill. So, yeah unless the solar panels on my rooftops save more, it makes no sense to forge ahead.

 

Before home PV, my utility was already carbon neutral. Absent PV, somewhere around 0.1 to 0.2 tons of CO2 annually would be assigned to my house, which the utility itself entirely offsets with purchased credits.

But I installed PV anyway. The 6000 kWh/yr of non-CO2 renewable energy that I produce does not mean that 5800 kWh of renewable energy from other sources goes unused. Instead, it gets shuffled around to others who can't yet get their hands on enough non-fossil energy, so they can use most of it to displace their CO2 sources. The CO2 reduction has been happening at a rapid rate.

My 6000 kWh/yr of renewable energy is not replacing a full 13.2 tons of coal-fired CO2/yr, but it is replacing vastly more than the 0.1-0.2 tons that would have otherwise been credited to my house.

There are numerous things like that, that he should or could get credit for. But such items were peanuts compared to what was actually making headlines then, so became lost in the noise. The main news can deliver only so much, and start at the top of the list, so these simply weren't big enough to make the cut.

For poor solar locations, that does make sense. Your renewable energy doesn't have to be produced on your roof or property, it is fungible and can be produced anywhere the utility lines reach.

I purchased some shares in one of the area Community Solar projects, and just received the final incentive payment under the program that expired June 30 last year. But under this area project, I don't get the energy produced, it reverts to the community facility where it was installed. While it wasn't guaranteed to do so, I did recoup my entire contribution before the PV ownership passed to that facility. This program was more to demonstrate the practicality of solar energy even here.

 

I paid very little attention to any political news, or I should say, I actively avoided paying attention to any headline news of former administration from any news sources including leading media outlets (right or left or middle) for the past four years. I am not likely to start watching/reading them now that the new administration has started. I firmly believe that no information is better than misinformation.

The community solar project I have signed up for is from Nexamp. It requires no upfront contribution. I do not get the ownership of the PV. Thus no cost of installation, material, labor, and maintenance for me. No annual contract and I can cancel the subscription at any time. It guarantees 15% off my current electric bill (additional saving for me due to cancellation of Green Energy Fee of ~$15/mo making my saving ~23%). I don't get the energy produced, but the solar energy I purchased at discount will be fed to the grid. The way I look at it, a grid-tied solar on my roof would be exactly the same in this respect. In fact, if I install the PV on my rooftop and overproduce the electricity, I would be just donating free electricity to the grid. With this community solar plan, there is no overshooting my monthly usage and guaranteed saving as long as I continue to subscribe.

 

I think you just have Prius colored glasses

Lets look at the Highlander hybrid. The first one in 2006 was rated 25mpg on the highway. The next generation went to 28, and current is at 35. The big jump for the new one isn't because of hybrid technology. It is because of advances in engine technology that allow a 4 cylinder to perform at the level of the old V6 while using less fuel. In the ICE Camry, the fuel economy of the 4 cylinder improved 14% with the new engine.

The Highlander curb weights are around that of the Rav4 Prime. The Rav's system power is 59hp higher than the current Highlander, and it's highway MPG is one better. In part, because its engine is tuned for slightly less power. Yes, the Rav4 prime is designed for power. that is what sells, and most potential buyers for it are also looking at the Model Y.

So far, the best highway MPG in a hybrid SUV is the Rav4 hybrid at 38. Considering the first Highlander and Escape hybrids started at 25 and 26, this is a huge improvement.

Nearly all car models grow with each generation, and it isn't limited to the US.

That's because what speed people drive at on the highway is far higher that what the test is at.

The EPA highway test cycle has a max speed of 60mph, with an average one of 48.3mph. There is a new high speed test, but it is one of three used to determine the adjustment factor to the raw city and highway test results. Its max speed in 80mph, but its average is 48.4mph.

A sedan probably won't have much trouble getting EPA driving at Interstate speeds, but SUVs have far poorer aerodynamics, which becomes a bigger burden to fuel economy as the speed increases.

 

Do you really think banks do that? Maybe you should just not debit more than what is in your account.

And the IRS just does what the tax laws instruct them to do. Nothing nefarious about it.

 

Yes, banks choose to do that to maximize their revenue, and disclose it in their Terms & Conditions. If anyone bothers to read that boilerplate.

But the IRS does it because Congress told them to so. If Congress wanted to make this credit refundable or carry-forward-able, they would have done so, but instead chose a different category.