Featured Prius v ends US run, Rav4 hybrid took its sales

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Ashlem, Nov 18, 2017.

  1. egg_salad

    egg_salad Member

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    Fair enough - I've used incorrect terminology. Please allow me to rephrase.

    Is it of value to create a dedicated chassis and body combination solely for a hybrid model versus simply putting a hybrid drivetrain into an existing chassis and body combination?

    The RAV4 is available in both gasoline and hybrid models. That simply has to be more economical than having any given body only available as a hybrid, doesn't it?
     
  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Just to be clear, I believe the Corolla will be on the Gen 4 TNGA chassis; the Camry is on its own TNGA (probably shared with the Avalon and ES)

    Also, TNGA is more than just the chassis (platform sharing isn't new. Remember when VW offered "small, medium and large" in the form of the Golf, Jetta and Passat all on the same chassis of varying sizes?).

    TNGA also includes other parts such as seatbelts, airbags, accelerator/brake pedals and so on. From my understanding, it is standardizing the position of driver in the vehicle across multiple vehicles such that the parts used across multiple vehicles can be standardized because the angle of the steering wheel relative to the driver's seat, the height of the driver's seat relative to the seatbelt mounting points, the mounting height and angle of the steering column etc are all the same or within a small range such that additional engineering doesn't need to take place.

    Yes and no.

    The value is creating a specialized product meant for that one goal; in the case of the Prius, it's for lowest emissions and lowest fuel economy. The result is the Gen 1-3 Prius which have outperformed the Civic Hybrid (or a more modern case is the Volt that, while using the Cruze's chassis, has managed to hide that fact very well and appears as a stand-alone model).

    The downside is that it's hard to use that platform on other vehicles without much compromise (e.g. Prius v and PHV/Prime - both are heavier then Gen 3, limiting what the engineers can do without a costly major overhaul of the chassis).

    Designing the chassis with a hybrid powertrain in mind is probably more cost effective. It's no different from before where an engine bay will be designed to accommodate an engine larger than the standard engine... or maybe not and then they engineers will have to work around that problem (e.g. put a turbocharged engine of similar size as the standard engine in lieu of a larger engine bay).

    IMO, the accountants would rather prefer to have a single chassis with multiple powertrain options including hybrid or PHEV. I'm sure an engineer would rather have a dedicated platform for each vehicle purpose if they could.
     
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  3. egg_salad

    egg_salad Member

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    Well, in most instances these days, companies are in business to maximize profits and please shareholders.
     
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    • all one color that changes each year with a price increase
    • all one set of options, nothing new until the inventory is used up
    • all non-accounting staffs reduced to minimum, minus one
    • all other employees are temporary w/o pensions and medical
    Bob Wilson
     
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  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Except they didn't consider the PHEV in the design process.

    With the reduction in hybrid battery packs sizes, there is no longer a need to design a stand alone hybrid. The hybrid system already fit into the space of the traditional engine and transmission. Toyota could just offer a Corolla hybrid(include a hatchback version at the same time), and it could have fuel economy close to the Prius, and most people would be fine with the Prius disappearing. The rumor is that is what will happen with the Yaris and Prius c/Aqua.

    But there can still be value in having a dedicated hybrid model. It is in the halo effect, like the Volt gave Chevy. The marketing value could warrant the additional cost for such a model.

    Chrysler's K-car was one of the first modular platforms. It didn't work out for them in the end.
     
  6. egg_salad

    egg_salad Member

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    No, but it worked out well for them in the beginning. It kept them from bankruptcy and allowed them to develop the first modern minivan. They just hung their hat on that one platform for far too long.
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Hopefully Toyota, and any others, have learned that lesson.
     
  8. egg_salad

    egg_salad Member

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    Well, they sort of do, in the UK. The USDM Corolla hatchback (Corolla iM) is the UKDM Toyota Auris. Unsurprisingly, it's offered in a hybrid - perhaps in other markets as well.
     
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  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Yes, and the Auris hybrid sells better than the Prius because it is made locally.
    The US Corolla isn't an Auris though, the iM aside, and is slightly bigger. I understand that the CT200 was based on that Corolla. China is getting a hybrid of that Corolla.
     
  10. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Got 2 new Prius v owners, just on my block this month...
    is Toyota sure they are not selling, or are they not trying too hard?
     
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  11. GregC1979

    GregC1979 Junior Member

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    There's one person in the thread confident they aren't selling anywhere in the U.S. anyway, but he's wrong. Like I said in California, they (all Prii) are flying off the shelves.
     
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    There is $1750 cash back and a 0% for 5 years deal on the Toyota site for the v, and slightly better for the Prius on Toyota's sight. Locally, listings for the v can be found for around $3000 off. It is December, and there are only 2017 models, so the v deals will only get better.

    *sigh*
    :rolleyes:

    I have posted links to the Prius v's actual sales data showing that they have been dropping since its first couple of years. It will take a major run on the model for 25,000 to be sold this year, and it likely won't sell even 24,000. The same site has the data for the the rest of the Prius family. Only the Prime is doing well, but it is part of the reason that 2017 Prius sales will be over 30,000 less than 2016. The Prius c/Aqua is likely to be cancelled, and replaced with a Yaris hybrid.

    Here are the Prius family sales data, showing that sales have been dropping year to year since 2012.
    Toyota Prius Family Sales Figures -

    You have yet to explain how offering the v in California will save it in North America.
     
  13. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Active Member

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    If you think about it the v is a 2010 gen III car with window dressing selling in 2017, no wonder it’s down in sales

    If we want niche cars in the US we would need to repeal gray market laws, it used to be you could import most any used car you want if you were willing to pay, it should still be that way.
     
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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    That is so, but between the its current and past success, and the very well selling Rav4h, Toyota doesn't believe the new version will regain enough sales to be worth the effort to bring to market. It is a wagon in a crossover market after all.

    So the Prius v is gone from the North American market.
    The Prius c is likely to be replaced by the Yaris hybrid globally.
    The Prius will stick around as a halo car, but I expect it to lose more sales next year, because of the improved Camry hybrid.
    Yes, I for one would welcome diesel cars made to laxer emission standards.
     
  15. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Active Member

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    You pretend that there is no space between none and all I see...

    I’m guessing you figure half of all us cars sold would be Euro diesels if the law changed because everyone can easily afford and desires to be shipping a car from overseas?

    I would as well as long as it was within the former gray market framework of used cars sold by 3rd parties or bought by individuals with tight volume limits.

    Also it has been determined that all cars made after 1999 have minimal effect on local pollution even with faulty emissions in tow, this is because “new” car pollution is dwarfed by trucks, vans and “commercial “ segment vehicles.

    I would also like to see reciprocal agreements on emissions and crash standards between our first world countries
     
    #75 Rmay635703, Dec 6, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I see shades, and wouldn't mind the allowance of grey market imports. I wouldn't go through the hassle personally; a Canadian family had to go to the Japanese dealership to get replacement keys for their grey import recently. I just threw out the diesel example to show that making gray market imports easier means allowing cars in that people might not want to see on the road here.

    If I did import, it would be for a Mexican Super Beetle or diesel Land Rover.
     
  17. GregC1979

    GregC1979 Junior Member

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    Luckily there's an "ignore" feature on this board.
     
  18. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Just for more context for those unfamiliar with this story...


    It's because the car only came with one SKS fob and they lost it. It's just like losing your last SKS fob on a US-spec car - it's very expensive to replace it because there isn't a fob to copy the codes from.

    Anyway, the story goes that Toyota wouldn't touch it and the car had to be physically in Japan for the Japanese dealer to service it (which obviously isn't going to happen). The import dealer did go out of their way to find a solution.

    The family eventually got a mechanic who knows a "hacker" that could reset the codes and reprogram new keys. The import dealer did pay for half of the repair costs.


    Moral of the story? Don't lose your SKS fobs, especially if it's your last one!!
     
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  19. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Moral2. If you buy a car with only one SKS fob you have 2 critical tasks.

    Make sure the physical key operates the door locks

    Get and program at least one more SKS fob ASAP.
     
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  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    :ROFLMAO:
    Was answering how a California Prius v would save the model in the US too hard?
    Or was questioning your persecution complex over California gas taxes too offensive?

    For the record, I have put people on the ignore list. It was for being rude or proving to just be a noise generator. I don't try to engage the poster afterwards, though. Otherwise, I'd let the matter die, as I did the gas price difference between Ca and Pa.

    I mentioned it to illustrate that unexpected issues and costs can arise with a gray import car. Like it might not occur to some that a Japanese import with have its dash and displays in Japanese. These will still pertain even with easier import laws.
     
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