1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Programming Ourselves?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by rachaelseven, Jul 25, 2009.

  1. rachaelseven

    rachaelseven New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    616
    211
    0
    Location:
    Adams, MA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Just for kicks, I downloaded the J2534 passthru drivers from Tactrix and installed them on my computer. It did correctly register itself as a passthru device and it is available as a VIM selection in Techstream. The issue raised about the programming voltage is a whole different question and probably still a roadblock until their future version, as pointed out by maledyris. And I don't know that their DLL actually has all the necessary functions, only that it writes the correct registry values during installation to be seen by Techstream.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. maledyris

    maledyris New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    77
    11
    0
    Location:
    Burnaby, BC, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I think their DLL probably does support all the functions. These are the functions that need to be implemented for J2534:

    PassThruConnect
    PassThruDisconnect
    PassThruReadMsgs
    PassThruWriteMsgs
    PassThruStartPeriodicMsg
    PassThruStopPeriodicMsg
    PassThruStartMsgFilter
    PassThruStopMsgFilter
    PassThruProgrammingVoltage
    PassThruReadVersion
    PassThruGetLastError
    PassThruIoctl

    I was expecting the J2534 spec to be a 500 page document, but actually it's only 50 pages or so. Surprisingly enough, there really aren't that many functions, and I'm not sure you could get away with not implementing any of them (maybe PassThruReadVersion, because that only returns info about the DLL itself).

    Actually, it only now occurs to me that you said you downloaded the drivers. I think I'll download it later too and see what functions it actually does export...
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. maledyris

    maledyris New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    77
    11
    0
    Location:
    Burnaby, BC, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Ok, I disassembled op20pt32.dll which is Tactrix's version of the J2534 DLL and it does indeed implement all 12 functions I mentioned... And two more PassThruOpen and PassThruClose... Huh? Maybe I have the wrong version of the spec.

    Oops, my bad. Yes, those functions also need to be there. They're used to initialize the connection to the passthru device, and to terminate that connection.
     
  4. rachaelseven

    rachaelseven New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    616
    211
    0
    Location:
    Adams, MA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    So then the only real question is whether the hardware provides the correct voltages then, right? Getting close to thinking that someone should try it. What do you think?
     
  5. vkykam

    vkykam New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    27
    0
    0
    Just sent an email to Tactrix to see if they might have more compatibility info.

    If they don't, I'll push to see if they might offer a more liberal return policy for someone willing to try it on a Toyota. If they agree then I'll bite, if not I might wait.

    The pin 12 voltage gives me some hesitation, although just because Mongoose offers it doesn't mean it's required by Techstream. I'm just not desperate enough to risk $200 to try it... :D

    Any other brave souls out there?
     
  6. maledyris

    maledyris New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    77
    11
    0
    Location:
    Burnaby, BC, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Hmm... I want to try, but I also don't want to find out the hard way that it doesn't work.

    I'm trying to figure out whether the 2010 uses EEPROM's or flash memory in its ECU's. If the car uses flash memory (which I understand is actually cheaper than EEPROM) then there's no need for the vpp +5 to pin 12. If it does use EEPROM, then there has to be a programming voltage of some sort I would think.

    I was also trying to find the common ground between the different officially supported tools on the techinfo website:
    https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/appmanager/t3/ti?_pageLabel=ti_j2534_device&_nfpb=true
    Unfortunately they're all too vague about the specifics of their devices (except for Mongoose)

    I found a post about the older Mongoose ISO/CAN from Joey Oravec who apparently works at DrewTech. He posted this in a thread at mp3car.com:

    "Unfortunately it lacks programmable voltage/ground lines which are required to flash certain honda and toyota vehicles. I wish we could add that feature but it's a size/cost thing. Maybe a future product? For now, buy CarDAQ if you need those."

    This suggests that the programming voltage is necessary for Toyotas. But... This was written way back in May 2007. I don't know whether he was referring to older vehicles, or vehicles that were just coming out at that time. I also read a post somewhere else that suggested newer cars were moving to flash memory and no longer required the vpp. I don't know how accurate that statement was though.

    So right at the moment, it's still a guessing game. I hope they give you good news about the return policy, vkykam. Or at least I hope they let you know when their product will start supporting 5v to pin 12 ;)
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. Rokeby

    Rokeby Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    3,033
    708
    75
    Location:
    Ballamer, Merlin
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    rachaelseven and the other e-smart posters on this thread,

    My apologies for being oly tangentially on-topic here.

    It sounds to me like you guys and gal can get as much info out of the
    HSD and its computers as any Pirus tech. So...

    I've been led to believe that somewhere in the HSD or its software
    there is a logging function that records all kinds of stuff.
    Some potentially useful: max RPMs, speed, and various temps
    Some kinda weird: number of times gas pedal is pushed when car in
    neutral ??

    I think it would be very interesting to see just what values are in
    fact logged. I can't find or remember anything like this being posted
    here.

    If you guys and gal could generate a list of what if anything is actually
    logged and available to Prius techs, and then post it as a new thread, I
    would think that it would have a good possibility of being raised to
    Sticky-hood.
     
  8. rachaelseven

    rachaelseven New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    616
    211
    0
    Location:
    Adams, MA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    There is a ton of data that is instantly available - more than is practical to list, to be honest. There are well over 50 sensor outputs just for the drivetrain, as best I recall. As for logging though, I only saw freeze-frame data that was captured around the time of an error code. When a code is thrown, it stores something like 5 frames - several proceeding the event, the moment of the event, and the next one after the event. Each of these frames contains the whole sensor output dataset for that instant. Those frames are stored until cleared by the Techstream unit. There is also the black box somewhere in the car, analogous to the flight data recorder on an airplane. That keeps data to be used by law enforcement for determining crash conditions, but is not accessible through the normal service tool. Beyond those two storage systems, I'm not aware of any major data logging, but I'll be sure to look next time I hook up to the car.
     
    2 people like this.
  9. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,994
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Did anyone try if Tactrix OpenPort 2.0 works with TechStream?

    If I understand correctly we think it may not be able to write data (flash) to Prius right? Even then, it should be able to read out all the data available in TechStream correct? $169 is still a very good price for the view-only capability. You may be able to run PCMSCAN with this hardware since it is J2534 compliant.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. billshadow00

    billshadow00 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    17
    8
    0
    Location:
    Highlands Ranch, CO
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    OK, I've read through this thread multiple times trying to figure out if I should try any of this stuff. I'm fairly technically saavy...I'm an 30-year aerospace engineer who launches rockets for a living, but unfortunately, this ISN'T rocket science...and I've dabbled in both cars and computers as hobbies.

    I'm contemplating shelling out $150 for a tool that only programs TPMS sensors so I can swap out winter tires/wheels on my new GenIII Prius IV (not to mention the cost of the sensors themselves...ouch). But, it sounds like the approach described here will do the sensors for me and also provide some cool data as a bonus.

    Would you recommend that I just go with the dumb TPMS tool, or is this or some other option available that will prove useful more than twice a year?

    Thanks!

    Bill

    P.S. I'm new to Prius, but have been eying them for years. I'm truly thrilled with the car, but it really irks me that Toyota doesn't provide a user friendly way to perform mundain tasks like changing tires, or backup beeps! [rant off]

     
    1 person likes this.
  11. rachaelseven

    rachaelseven New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    616
    211
    0
    Location:
    Adams, MA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I certainly find the extra capability of the full Techstream setup worth it. I had to reset a trouble code a while back (left off the fusebox cover and got a bit of water in during a carwash) and the Techstream handled that with no problem. It can also program keys and read an absolute ton of diagnostic data. I haven't done it, but you could certainly use it to monitor interesting things about the HSD's performance and whatnot. If you're talking strictly in terms of paying for itself, the TPMS reset tool may be the better option, but I too was very frustrated by not being able to access basic things and I feel very much 'freed' by having on-demand access to the Techstream.
     
    2 people like this.
  12. billshadow00

    billshadow00 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    17
    8
    0
    Location:
    Highlands Ranch, CO
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Thanks for the response, Rachael! I agree that the financial investment makes sense. I'm more concerned that it will be too complicated for me to get it working. I have experimented with some "undocumented" stuff on computers, calculators, electronics, etc. And, I've wiped out memory a many times as I learned what works. I'm a bit nervous that I could hose up my new car:eek:

    Thanks again!

    Bill

     
  13. sciguy125

    sciguy125 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    90
    22
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Other than changing some settings what does Techstream buy us? Is there any routine maintenance that would require Techstream? I know that bleeding the brakes does.
     
  14. rachaelseven

    rachaelseven New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    616
    211
    0
    Location:
    Adams, MA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Adding/removing keys, changing TPMS sensors (snows or replacement), changing settings, clearing trouble codes... all that kind of stuff. As for what would be 'routine', I guess that depends on what you usually do. For me, swapping between summer and winter tires happens twice a year and that's pretty much enough to justify it. There are slightly less expensive solutions, but I like the access and it was worth it to me.
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. hptsang

    hptsang Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    139
    9
    0
    Location:
    Houston, Tx
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    I think it would be nice if we all pitch in a little bit and take turns to use it or ask PC to by one and let us rent it out. I only want it to activate my alarm and get rid of the seat belt warning.
     
  16. rrolff

    rrolff Prius Surgeon

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2009
    1,610
    246
    0
    Location:
    So Cal
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    I personally don't understand why there is no second source - I think the interface is fairly generic...
     
  17. rachaelseven

    rachaelseven New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    616
    211
    0
    Location:
    Adams, MA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Many auto parts stores rent other sorts of tools... I wonder if one would rent something like this?
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. hptsang

    hptsang Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    139
    9
    0
    Location:
    Houston, Tx
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    I wonder too!! I am living in Texas and we don't need to switch out the tires , so it is pretty much an one time thing for me other than turning the error code off. But turning the code off doesn't worth spending $500 on it. I asked my dealer and they are scared to take off the seat belt warning for me. And when I asked the other dealership to activate my alarm for me and they are trying to charge me the whole 2 hrs of labor for 5 mins of work.
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. jayvee

    jayvee Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    341
    89
    0
    Location:
    WA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I don't know that I would call it "generic" - but it is at least somewhat standard, as it is a J2534 interface with enabled programming voltages/pins. Even the software drivers themselves use standard commands complying with the J2534 spec.

    I believe what is unique and manufacturer/vehicle specific is the data that is sent via those J2534 commands - and that is where Techstream is required. Any secondary software tool would need to "reverse engineer" the Toyota-specific data, which changes somewhat with versions of Techstream, as well as versions of the ECUs and programming (calibration) files, which Toyota updates on a regular basis.

    Programming ECU's is significantly more complex (and unfortunately proprietary) than reporting OBDII codes and reporting sensor data over that "standardized" interface.
     
  20. hptsang

    hptsang Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    139
    9
    0
    Location:
    Houston, Tx
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    I found something call ALLSCANNER Toyota Techstream, does anyone know what is that?