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Project Lithium customer review

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Wrecit, May 23, 2022.

  1. Wrecit

    Wrecit Active Member

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    Ok I took the plunge and bought a project lithium (special thank you to Prius camper)

    Due to UPS not PL it took 10 days to get here on a 3 day ups delivery. Have contacted PL and we are working on holding UPS feet to the fire for it.

    The big brown truck dropped it off today and I watched the install video one last time and jumped right in. Install was easy as 1,2,3.

    Dropped it back in and made my 23 year old son carry it to the car. It took both of us to get it out but after upgrade he was shocked how lite it was.

    Had one minor hick up on install. Got so excited to try it out I started it without putting the orange plug in and it threw a code with the dash lit up. Unfortunately I did not realize I forgot the orange plug till after I rushed to shut the car down and unplugged everything and texted camper all frantic that I just blew up the new battery lol

    Camper talked me off the ledge, I hooked everything back up, INSTALLED THE ORANGE SAFETY PLUG, cleared the codes and then went on a test drive.

    Prior to install I drove an 8 mile circuit on my 3 month old refurb. I was able to get 40.2mpg according to the dash. Battery temp hit 89. Outside temp was 76.

    Same route with the new cells 48.6 mpg battery temp 74 with outside temp at 71.

    This was only 8 miles so I am not going to tell everybody this is the best thing since sliced bread yet but I will say I am initially happy.

    Tomorrow night will be the first real test because I drive for my wife who does doordash. On an average night we will do between 75 and 200 miles so we will see how it goes.

    Will try to post on this thread at least one time a week for the next month or so to give report on how things are going.
     
  2. Wrecit

    Wrecit Active Member

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    Here is a Dr Prius screen shot at 40mph on a very slight up hill grade Screenshot_20220523-221840.jpg
     
  3. AzusaPrius

    AzusaPrius Senior Member

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    Welcome to the Lithium club...

    You will be happy to know that you can sit in READY mode and when you have a near full HV battery you can chill with the A/C blasting for 30+ minutes before the ICE kicks on to recharge it.
     
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  4. nancytheprius

    nancytheprius Active Member

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    longer than one minute? that’s a dream
     
  5. Wrecit

    Wrecit Active Member

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    Ok guys first night of doordash and here's what I found so far. All "prior" numbers are based on a 3 month old refurb by a respected east coast shop.

    We deliver in the same area of the city and average between 38 and 42mpg.

    Tonight with a total of 70 miles of Pittsburgh suburban deliveries, me acting as driver,wife picking up and dropping off orders so car was on all 5 hours we are looking at 56.1 mph.

    Not going to throw any parties after one night because the battery is fresh with only a total of about 110 miles on it but it is looking good.

    I was experiencing some heat issues with my refurb (high of 128 degrees) so have been keeping an eye on that. I hit the 128 with outside temps at 83. Was only 71 today but high temp was 101 with it running most of the time at low to mid 90. These numbers are with windows down no AC
     
  6. Wrecit

    Wrecit Active Member

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    Something I found interesting. With the hills around Pittsburgh it was not unusual to see pack voltage as tracked in Dr Prius spike into the red at over 280 for several seconds from brake regen. On those same hills tonight the highest I saw tonight was 247. I tried my best not to change my breaking or driving style to try to give a fair comparison.
     
  7. Wrecit

    Wrecit Active Member

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    Week one check in:

    Well the first night's gas milage was a slight anomaly but everything is going good. Car is being mainly used to doordash and we have done between 70 and 130 miles a night.

    As I said before most nights with the 3 month old refurb battery we would do 39-41 mpg. This week we have done 50-51mpg. IR has remained steady across the board (+/- 1) and 11 seems to be where she likes to be though will rise up to 15 and been as low as 9.

    Outside temps have been between 60 and 75 most of our work time and battery seems to run low to mid 90 degrees. Had 80 degrees and battery hovered around 100. Today is our hotest day of the year at 91 degrees and just to see made my wife who is anti AC very happy and ran no ac windows down for an hour. Battery temp climbed to 108 fairly quickly and stuck there.

    After that nonsense I set cabin temp to 73 degrees and within 20 minutes battery settled at 100 degrees.

    All in all am happy so far with the conversion/upgrade. Even when my wife drives (she refuses to "Prius" drive) we are seeing a out a 9mpg increase.

    Also as mentioned earlier, with the refurb battery, would regularly see down hill breaking cause pack volt reading to be as high as 290 plus for 5 to 10 seconds on some hills. Have tried to hard break on some of these areas and have not gotten above mid 240's pack volt
     
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  8. MattyD.

    MattyD. Junior Member

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    I'm so jealous. The battery in my prius is still good, I think at around 65% acording to Dr prius, but climbing long hills and using ac in town really highlights its degredation. I might just have to upgrade the pack soon with those mpg numbers. shockingly I still get 45 mpg while dashing if I keep the windows down instead of ac, as soon as the ac goes on it just drops like a rock.
     
  9. Wrecit

    Wrecit Active Member

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    Matty, last night ran the ac most of the 5 hour shift and seemed to always be driving up hill and did worst mpg so far at just under 46mpg. Was a bit discouraging after the past week lol.

    One thing to think about is if your cells are still fairly healthy you might find a rehab guy willing to buy your current packs off of you when you upgrade which could offset cost.
     
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  10. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Seems like the same type of report from a NEW battery. (y)

    It's hard to compare a refurbised (used) battery with a new one.

    But I'm happy it's working for you.
     
  11. Wrecit

    Wrecit Active Member

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    Ok almost a month in and figured I would check in. Weather here in Pittsburgh has quickly turned to damn it's hot. Been doing my best to cool the car down by opening all 4 doors and the hatch before I crawl into the oven but AC has been running at 3/4 to max much of the time (about 5 hours of doordash a night).

    Had temps on battery climb to 115 on a 98 degree day before the cabin cooled down and the ac brought it down to high 90's.

    With AC running so hard some nights I am down to about 44 mpg but averaging high 40's still and even had one night at 52mpg (seemed I drove down hill the entire shift lol)

    One month point opinion........I am a true believer in the project lithium. Unfortunately they are currently all out of stock or I would be ordering one for my son's 2008 right now.

    I know my milage is not impressive to some but if anyone lives in the Pittsburgh, pa area is on here that could post their mpg and other stats to try to compare apples to apples or even better anyone in the area that went the NPB route I would be excited to see how they do head to head
     
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  12. Pork Adobo

    Pork Adobo Junior Member

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    Hi Wrecit! Thanks for the post and updates. I just installed my lithium pack last week! I must've got the last one, literally the next day the site showed sold out.

    Question, did you replace your busbars? I replaced mine a couple of years ago when I started doing the whack-a-mole. Dr. prius sent out a warning email a couple of months ago saying the original copper bus bars are much better due to the instant demand the lithium pack requires. This is my only worry now, I wish I had kept the originals.
     
  13. Wrecit

    Wrecit Active Member

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    Got that email the day after my battery swap unfortunately. I pulled the cover and the rebuilder may have used the ones we were warned about. Been tossing around the idea of tracking down some OEM but have not noticed any issue
     
  14. Hybrid_Warrior

    Hybrid_Warrior New Member

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    Thank you Wrecit. Very thorough explanation.
    One question/experiment. The battery temps tend to rise during high charge and discharge cycles. The worse case scenario is going on a very long and steep uphill until down to a bar and of course back downhill. I know you have those in the Pittburgh area. Any chance you can slowly climb a long uphill and with the shifter in B slowly descend the same hill? This would tell us the robustness of the temperature/cooling.

    My concern, before I buy a pack, is that the modules are fully packed in plastic with no heat transfer from the cell to the airflow. Basically the airflow is cooling just the plastic. If you look at the only NiMH packs they had metalized sides with nipples to force spacing between adjacent cells and allow heat through. That metal surface was there for convection. Yes Lithium is superior but ALL batteries will have heat as a byproduct of deep charge and discharge. If you look at Teslas they run the fans and coolant when charging to vacate the heat. They even turn on the AC when parked to keep the packs cooler. (Note Teslas have liquid coolant loop through the batteries.)
    The other thing I worry about is what plastic they use on the enclosure. Is it flameproof (94V0) and if and when it catches fire (it will happen to some really low percentage of cells for sure) will it outgas toxic fumes.

    So if you could possibly do that experiment and track the temps and peaks I'd really appreciate it.
     
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  15. alftoy

    alftoy Senior Member

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    Project lithium also has nipples for cooling

    Prius Nimh battery modules are plastic as well, no metal sides. Resin case Panasonic

    Have you researched Prius Nimh for fire off gassing?
    Ni-MH Battery Explosion | Flickr
     

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    #15 alftoy, Jul 18, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2022
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  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Let's just say "really shiny sides" then.

    [​IMG]

    The Gen 1 modules looked like that PDF.
     
  17. Wrecit

    Wrecit Active Member

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    Got perfect hill to do that test Warrior. Will do the run tomorrow and post results and screen shots
     
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  18. Prius92

    Prius92 Member

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    When I look at doing any kind of upgrading I tend to look at money spent vs what money or time I can get out of it.
    The average American drives 14,263 miles per year. Meaning a 2009 Prius, the last of a Gen II, would on average have 185,419 miles.
    Gen II's are starting to rust out around the Midwest as well.
    I can't imagine sinking almost 2,500 dollars in a Gen II by upgrading to lithium cells, if this was a Gen3, sure.
    You can usually find a 2013-2015 wrecked Prius under 100k with what should still be good NIMH modules for $800 at a junkyard, that or rebuilding the pack from scratch would be a wiser option.
    I can't see having my Gen II 5 years from now, and spending almost 2,500 on a longer longevity boost of the hybrid system just does not seem worth it in my eyes.
     
  19. Wrecit

    Wrecit Active Member

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    92 it is all about point of view. My 06 in Pittsburgh rust belt is still solid (really can't figure out how the rockers look so good lol)

    We put about 700 miles a week on it. It is serviced by, from many reports here, a unicorn dealership that has 3 full certed mechs and they have never tried to "up sell" me on anything. With the upgrade I am getting an extra 70 to 90 miles per 7 gallon fill up. At current prices that is a savings of $8 per tank. That comes out to a savings of about $600 a year.

    Throw in the fact that my last rebuilt battery with a 2 year warranty cost $800 and had to be replaced at 14 months and the piece of mind that this battery that I believe was $2200 shipped will preform flawlessly for at least 5 years with out playing wack a mole every 6 to 8 months adds the value of piece of mind that my wife or daughter will not call me frantic that the red triangle of death popped up AGAIN makes the choice a no brainer to me.

    I understand your view and if you only have grocery and short work commute it can actually be argued that you really are not getting full value out of owning a Prius. If you are running your Prius at a fair amount of miles however and do the math the project lithium or toasters NPB are real options that should be considered.

    Off to do that hill test now.
     
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  20. Wrecit

    Wrecit Active Member

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    Ok hill test time. Hill is 1.3 miles with an elevation change according to my app if 1401 ft.

    Car is warmed up. Outside temp is 82 degrees. Speed is 30mph up and down the hill. I ran this test without the ac running. Here are starting screen shots
     

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