Prolong Battery Systems featured in Parts & People Magazine

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by jeff652, Dec 2, 2016.

  1. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Maybe Bob Wilson. He really likes crunching data.
     
  2. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

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    From all of the reading he has suggested, it would appear that "technology" already exists.
    It just needs to be done by a recognized verifiable organization.
     
  3. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Toyota already has done this testing.

    The techniques described have been used in the hobby industry for what 40 years?

    The issue is that as with all things there is a success and failure rate.

    The techniques are so old as to be common knowledge and more or less undocumented
     
  4. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

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    Oh give me a break.
    The battery technology in use is what......maybe 15 years old, certainly is NOT common knowledge among the consuming public and anything that Toyota has publicly claimed to have done is certainly documented somewhere.
    Your statements just don't hold water.

    P.S. If you support the people making and selling these devices, I suggest that you just let this thread die a natural death.
     
  5. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    If you have read anything I've wrote here I rarely support anyone, I certainly am not paid a dime by anyone.

    90% of what is done on nicad is directly applicable to nimh, difference being nicad is more robust to full discharge and overcharge.

    What he is describing is what has always been done on Nickle based hobby cells.

    Just because you are ignorant of industry practice outside motor vehicles does not mean this is snake oil. Nor does it mean it's a universal solution to every failure mode on a battery.

    On my insight I have used a home built charger and discharger to have Ima functionality on a car with a failed pack.

    Although charge / discharge systems will allow use of a failed pack, they do not work indefinitely and also may cover up individual cell failures which can lead to damaging surround good cells.

    But few people here are going to tear down a pack to the cell level and gaining months or even years of additional use is worth it to some people.

    Let's face it though, there is nearly ZERO profit to anyone refurbishing Prius batteries, nearly zero to making a charger for under a thousand folks.
    No one is going to test this for you, any place like Toyo that did it as due dillegence on this matter will never talk about it because it would interfere with their sales of dealer installed packs and if Toyo did it they would have to accept a very high failure rate.

    No one but hobbiests will use these devices, folks like you likely don't know how, when or why to use this and thus will never own one nor have any skin in this very very small niche market.

    As I've been told many times, if you want data on this matter you will have to create it yourself

    Good Luck
    Ryan
     
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  6. qdllc

    qdllc Senior Member

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    Is there a time frame by which you plan (or hope) to have the new discharger to market?
     
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  7. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Answer in post #17 was late February.
     
  8. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

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    Which is conveniently left out of their "marketing" information......which seems to be the rule these days instead of the exception.

    Thank you for your post. It includes several points that I think needed to be said.

    I don't think anyone will be outright scammed by this but I do think a lot of "non-hobists" will be misled by incomplete information and will end up with a really expensive piece of equipment sitting in the garage gathering dust.
    And a few will probably make a really expensive mistake while trying to use it and end up worse off than they started.
     
  9. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

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    That's enough.

    These people are trying to run a business. Maybe you're just a twelve year-old kid who doesn't understand what that means, but it means they're pouring all their savings and a lot of hard work in order to develop a product and a reputation of customer goodwill. It's very difficult to start and run a small business, and you seem to be hell-bent on damaging their reputation in order to pacify your ego.

    Just drop it. They have described their offering and its purpose very clearly, and if you don't want to buy one, then don't. But drop this mission of yours to disparage these perfectly nice people who are building products which their customers obviously love.

    Stop. Now. We got your point. It's enough.
     
    #49 Rebound, Dec 30, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
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  10. jeff652

    jeff652 Senior Member

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    We have the first enclosure prototypes being air freighted from China in the next couple days. As soon as they get here we will do final thermal testing and design approval. Once that's done our supplier in China will build the full order and air freight the first 50 units to us before they shut down for Chinese New Year. The rest of the order will come ocean freight, which is running 6-8 weeks these days.

    We Leave for VisionKC and Automotive Training Expo trade shows at the end of Feb so I am trying to have them released before we head east. (6,000 mile road trip in four weeks - will be fun!)
     
    #50 jeff652, Dec 30, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
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  11. gamma742

    gamma742 Member

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    Can hardly wait to see this new discharger product
     
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  12. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    +1:)
     
  13. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

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    I tried to stop.
    I WILL stop if others do.
     
  14. qdllc

    qdllc Senior Member

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    Any updates on the new discharger? It's April...almost May.
     
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  15. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    I'll give the new intelligent discharger a go over Memorial Day weekend :).

    @GotRidofSignUpMessage did a complete reconditioning cycle on his v wagon over Easter.

    Maybe he can share some learnings with us? Like the secret to turning off the beep if you don't want it to alert you ;).
     
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  16. jeff652

    jeff652 Senior Member

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  17. wirelessjava

    wirelessjava Junior Member

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    I think there are no definitive authority which one of these product works or not. It seems there are many on the market but not one shows over time the effectiveness of the product. For all you could be buy is a brick. I am skeptical.
     
  18. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    I'm going to throw my questions into the pot.

    Jeff, If someone calls you and tells you they have a failure code battery in their car, lets say "block 7" is coding. What advice do you provide? Do you inform them that your device will solve their problem, or do you tell them your device will not cure a failed module, but may cover up the problem? Obviously, the word 'may' can be put in there, but that's kind of vague.

    There are plenty of people who are very tight $$ wise and would lean toward a $400 device because they can't afford more for a real repair.

    If a customer tells you they have a Gen 2 battery pack that has 27 modules at 7.8 volts and 1 module at 6.3 volts, would you recommend that they purchase your device? Or would you recommend they keep the $400 and work toward physically repairing/replacing the battery?
     
  19. jeff652

    jeff652 Senior Member

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    Here is one example of the results from our products:
    [​IMG]

    There are multiple threads here on Priuschat from users of our products. We have scores of reviews on our FB page and hundreds on our eBay page. I understand our technology feels different to some when they first encounter it, but it does work. It works for the same reason that removing the battery from the car, disassembling the pack, and cycling each module individually with a hobby charger works. We apply the same technology to the entire pack at once while it is still in the car. We have sold thousands of systems and shipped them all over the world in the last 4+ years. Check around here on Prisuchat and talk to some of our customers, they will share their personal experiences with you.

    We help potential customers understand their options and evaluate the cost benefit of each alternative available to them. For example, if this hypothetical customer with a "block 7" failure is a DIY type and comfortable working on their battery, then replacing a module or two and cycling the pack with our products is the cheapest way to get their car back on the road. Our products enable the repair and recovery of the existing hybrid battery that has a known history to the vehicle owner (vs an unknown used replacement pack from a vendor). In addition, not only are they able to get the battery back into serviceable condition, but they can keep the reconditioned battery running for years by servicing it regularly. So for $450 (in your price scenario, the extra $50 is for the replacement module), this customer would not only be back on the road, but able to stay on the road for years to come. We provide our customers with the contact information for reputable trusted module supplies so they can have a very high assurance that the replacement module will be of good quality and similar capacity to the rest of their battery. This is not just hypothetical, several Priuschat members have lived out this exact scenario and had great success with our products.
     
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  20. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    I'm good with that. I completely understand, 100%, what your device accomplishes. You've effectively converted the individual module cycling to a full pack cycle scenario. In simple terms, you've developed a high voltage hobby charger (discharger?) which should be more than adequate for a battery that's already in reasonable condition.

    Have you done testing using a battery with a known failed module (or more) to see what the results would be? An example I'm curious about---> I currently have a Dorman battery on my work bench that just came out of a "red triangle" 2005 Prius two days ago. It's build date was December 2015. All the warranty seals were intact. 24 modules are date coded 8/22/2005 and 4 modules are date coded 12/04/2003. (23 of the 8/22 modules are 7.89 vdc and 1 is 6.32 vdc. The (4) 12/04 modules are 7.81-7.85 vdc. Nothing has been touched on this battery other than the covers removed. The test information I would be interested in would be just slapping this battery back in a car, connecting your device, allowing it to perform some cycles, see how the car reacts and then maybe more cycles(?) and at some point pull the battery out and test individual capacities. Do you have any data on something similar? Maybe even perform an initial individual discharge cycle prior to installing it in the car to get base data for "fresh out of car capacity".
     
    #60 TMR-JWAP, Apr 25, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
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