Proper Parenting

some people need desceplin in adulthood, I think if the balance of stirctness and understanding is met, the child will be fine.

 

why are parents letting kids make the rules? that's what i wanna know.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Jun 19 2006, 08:47 PM) [snapback]273735[/snapback]</div>

seriously??? :blink:

- so go hungry, see if i care.
- don't come crying home to me when the kids at school say you smell funny.
- wanna talk back? do it while you're mowing the lawn so i can't hear you
- i suggest you learn how to calm down because assault will put you in jail (or, probably more effectively, do you really want to end up like grandma's husband?)
- guess you're not going back to that friend's house again, are you?

how hard is that?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jun 19 2006, 07:43 PM) [snapback]273678[/snapback]</div>

Because there is a large loud group that says we should never physically discipline our children and the best parenting is to "negotiate" with your children.

Examples given are common in our jurisdiction as well. Children should be punished in a manner that is effective for that child, including physically. Short of permanent marks or serious physical harm (OR PERMANENT emotinal injury)...parents should be left alone to raise as needed.

I am VERY leery of restrictions on parental discipline. I know abuse when i see it....and I don't see a lot in disciplinary issues.

 

When and if we decide to have children, I guarantee he/she will not be hearing the phrase "time out" in my house. As I child, I was very bad and I was punished accordingly... ie spanked, given hot sauce for talking back/cursing, etc. I've grown into an okay adult, I think.

If people don't want to parent they shouldn't have kids.

 

Ugh! I just want to roll my eyes at people who think a parent has no buisness correcting their child. People, as smart as we think we are, are still subject to the same behavior modification processes as any other critter. We avoid that which hurts and we are attracted to that which makes us feel good. Physical pain exists for just such a purpose. If something hurts, it is our body telling us to stop doing something before we are damaged. This is exactly what a parent can do for a child. A spanking hurts, of course, but done correctly, causes no damage. Humans have a unique ability to assign blame. A child is able to learn that a specific behavior is what caused the parent to spank, and later avoid that behavior to avoid the spanking. Does this mean there is no place for time-outs and the like? Not at all. These techniques can be very effective, if they work for the specific child in question, for a particular behavior. I was spanked when I was young, but as an older child, I had learned enough respect that a simple "I don't want you to do that." from one of my parents was enough to modify my behavior. This was not because I feared them, but because I understood their prior punishments, and realised they knew more then me.

For those parents who do have the need to punish in public, you might want to check your state's laws and keep them handy for invasive strangers. Here's Arizona's



13-403. Justification; use of physical force

The use of physical force upon another person which would otherwise constitute an offense is justifiable and not criminal under any of the following circumstances:

1. A parent or guardian and a teacher or other person entrusted with the care and supervision of a minor or incompetent person may use reasonable and appropriate physical force upon the minor or incompetent person when and to the extent reasonably necessary and appropriate to maintain discipline.

 

My parents "negotiated" with me.
If I worked around the house I was paid less than the going rate if and when I did a better than expected job. My parents did not believe in allowances.

I was told if I ate my dinner and did my homework that I could watch what television shows they allowed me to watch at the one tv in a common area.

I was told I could not make phone calls without permission from the one phone in a common area.

I was told if I did not sait up straight, say "please" and "thank you" and be polite that I would be going to bed without my supper.

I was told if a teacher needed to discipline me that would be nothing compared to what they would do when they found out.

I was told if I was not home after school on time I would not be watching tv or visiting with my friends.

I was told a strong body and a strong mind go hand in hand and I was expected to shovel the driveway, cut the grass, and have a paper route or other way to earn money.

I was told it was good to be a cub scout, boy scout, be on an athletic team, but that if I had poor grades I wouldn't be allowed to do these things.

My parents negotiated by giving me choices.

I think the real root of the problem is the economics of the two income family. By not being around to parent your own children, parents essentially abdicate parental responsibility to schools, day care centers, baby sitters, nanny's, or the computer or tv screen. By putting computers, phones, and televisions in children's rooms parents lose control of their children. Being a parent means taking the bad with the good and making the best choices you are capable of for your children. Too often parents today would rather blame someone or something else for their childrens problems.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jun 19 2006, 07:43 PM) [snapback]273678[/snapback]</div>

"ciz they want their kids to LIKE them! If I had a choice between my children liking me and my children respecting me, I would choose respect.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Jun 19 2006, 10:45 PM) [snapback]273856[/snapback]</div>

Most people seem to equate 'discipline' with physcal abuse. But discipline is teaching a path, a way, and helping the disciple to master the discipline.

Physical punishment in NOT a good idea. BUT there are times that 'spanking' a child or 'grabbing' a child is the most appropriate way to get the child's attention! My best friend had two boys 7 years apart. The older one obeyed - that was part of his personality. The younger one was clearly a 'free thinker'. I was at her place when the four month old, in a walker, was approaching the hot stove. His mom yelled 'NO!" and clapped her hand to make a noise. He turned around, looked over his shoulder, and went for the stove again. She repeated the 'NO' trick two more times (and it would have worked IMMEDIATELY with the older boy), but after that, the baby was getting DANGEROUSLY close to the stove. She yelled "No" and then swatted his arm. He stopped, surprised, and began to cry....but he STOPPED.

My friend was devastated because she had never hit her older son - she felt like a failure. I tried to re-assure her that she'd done the right thing - she tried to get him to respond to 'No'; she didn't immediately run across the room and take the baby away from the stove. She tried twice more - HE wanted to get to the stove more than he wanted to please his mom <g>, but she didn't let him go all the way to burning himself on the hot stove to 'teach him a lesson', nor did she attempt to reason with a four month old to explain the concepts of 'hot', 'gas flame', 'stove', 'burn', etc. to him. She was instilling discipline in her sons - it just took different techniques to get the point across with the younger one.

The older boy is 36 now with two sons, 18 months and almost 5 years old. Both these young'uns have had to 'go to your room', both know the meaning of the word 'NO', and they're fine, happy little boys. My friend's younger son is about to turn 29; he's continued to need to 'see for himself' most times, but actually was surprisingly amenable to the argument 'I know you're more mature than many other children your age, but you simply don't yet have enough life experience to make a decision about an issue like this'. (Issues included moving cross country at age 11 to become Jim Morrison when he couldn't sing, play guitar, etc.)

Both these kids were disciplined and ARE disciplined - they've absorbed the externally-applied disciplines. They're happy, responsible adults. And guess what? Not only do they respect their Mom, they even LIKE her!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Jun 20 2006, 06:23 AM) [snapback]273997[/snapback]</div>

Personally, I believe some of these 'trends' date back to the early to mid '70s when the 'family comedy' started to revolve around smart-aleck kids. Parents watching these TV children behave abominably were 'funny' - a big change from the sit-coms of earlier times like 'Father Knows Best', 'The Danny Thomas Show', etc. Remember the old saying 'spare the rod and spoil the child'? Not that I'm advocating caning as a way to instill discipline into children! But the parents who laughed at the smart aleck sit-com kids certainly didn't complain when THEIR kids did stuff like that - maybe they 'spoiled' their children; now these 'spoiled children' haven't got a role model to emulate parenting skills with their own children! They grew up and perhaps married in the early 80's, and THEIR children are now late-teens to early-twenties, and may even have children themselves <sigh>.

Sorry for standing on my soapbox so long and ranting so loudly! I "spoiled" my children with loving them AND with teaching them the skills and habits and lessons they needed to master to become responsible adults, AND with giving them freedom to learn and develop on their own, telling them 'mistakes' are opportunities for learning. If they made a mistake, they needed to 1) learn how to clean up the mess quickly, safely and without harm to others; 2)learn how to avoid making that mistake again; 3)learn to devise strategies to avoid mistakes, and 4) making a mistake is not 'wrong' - you have to risk making mistakes in order to advance, and that's a lot better than being paralyzed for fear of making a mistake.

Ooops - I really DID mean to get off the soap box - bye!!!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(heliotropehead @ Jun 20 2006, 04:11 PM) [snapback]274235[/snapback]</div>

I Agree!!! Having children for the sake of having someone to love you is abslolutely the WORST reason to have kids!

 

I was a single parent and therefore don't believe in the whole "mom (or dad) needs to stay home. If the parent is there but the time is not quality than it does not matter. I spent time reading to my daughter, playing games and as she got older I knew her friends and they were expected to spend as much time at my place as she did at theirs. I knew the parents of her friends and we talked.

I spanked/slapped fingers, I took things away when bad and treated when behavior was deserving. Negotiating works with older kids who already have a good idea of right and wrong, reward and expectation. It galls me to hear mothers "explaining" to their 2, 3 and 4 year old kids why they shouldn't kick the lady, steal candy etc.

Discipline also needs to be immediate and consistent. One of my friends has a child diagnosed with Oppositional Mood Disorder (DUH!) She would stand there and say "we're going to leave if you keep doing(insert bad behavior)" But she never left, she never followed through. There were no consequences. (she was also an "explainer").

People should be required to take classes before becoming parents. If you go to the pound and try to adopt a pet they ask you so many personal questions you would think I was taking out a loan or getting a job in a high security area.

PS; My daughter is a great human being and we have a wonderful relationship. I knew I was doing things right when one day I heard her telling her sleep over buddy "no, we have to tell my mom, she wont get mad". The friend was like "cover it up she wont know", there had been a chocolate milk spill in the sofa sleeper. When the girls came to the kitchen to spill the beans, I calmly gave them a towel, told them to put the sheets in the hamper and that was it. The little friend nearly fell on the floor as she had been expecting a tirade. I think they were about 8 then.

 

It is a parent's obligation to discipline their child. Children need to learn responsibility and how to live in society. This entails manners for one. The also need to learn to think before they act and that there are consequences for actions, both good and bad.

The problem is most parents are clueless how to discipline children.

Hitting after age 4-5 isn't very effective. But you don't negotiate.

Make your rules and expectations clear.

Rules should be consistent.

There should be immediate consequences, either reward for a job well done or a punishment of some sort when rules are broken.

You do not negotiate with children.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Jun 19 2006, 07:14 PM) [snapback]273658[/snapback]</div>

Yes I discipline my child, but not with the back of my hand. For my kid when confronted with physical violence he responds with greater violence. Not a direction I want to go in. He runs his own life in that there are consequences for his actions or inactions. That 4 letter F word works wonders in my house. He doesn't want to help carry in the groceries? "FINE" I can carry them in, of course I may not want to cook him or anyone else supper.... He doesn't want to do his homework? "FINE" we'll just turn off the electricity to all electronics and have a nice quiet evening....He isn't ready to go when I tell him it is time to go? "FINE" we just won't go there for two months. He has tested these and many other rules out and generally finds it preferable not to hear the 4 letter F word.
OTOH I do find it difficult to discipline him for things which go on at school. When he was 9 he had a lying streak a mile wide. I sat him down went over the consequences of what would happen if he continued lying and told him that ultimately he had control of his mouth, I couldn't make him tell the truth. So a few months later he started having to serve detentions for things he didn't do. Seems the other kids figured out the teachers no longer believed him so would blame whatever mishap on him. I had him serve the detentions and went over the difficulties with lying again. He now tells the truth about 90 percent of the time. I didn't want someone else to discipline him, but he had to find out I was not the only one who reacted negatively to his actions.
The whole go to school thing, yup he knows that if he misses the bus it is a long walk or bike ride to school. He won't be staying home.
The only time I ever hit him was when he hit me after I told him not to hit me again. He hit me again, I returned the behavior. He said he would call the police as it was against the law for me to hit him. I told him where the phone book was. I told him to call the police and DSS since if I was in jail he could not live here. I also told him it was just as wrong for him to hit me and that I would press charges when the police arrived. That was the last time I heard that arguement, it was also the last time he hit me.
Personally I am more horrified by the parents who follow their kids everywhere and still believe the kid walks on water. I am talking about parents who volunteer at school, after school activities, and everywhere their kid goes. Course the school and the organizations are grateful for the help, but usually their kids are the worst sneaks. This past weekend one child whose parents always are there "helping out" found an inchworm and joyously burned it in the campfire. Parental response "you've got the wrong kid. he respects life and knows better than to do anything like that. I was here the whole time, I would have noticed something like that." Kid "it wasn't me". End of discussion.
I know my kid isn't perfect. I always check any story out with him before taking action as he has been unfairly accused a few times particularly after the year of lying. But if he does wrong, he knows life won't be pleasant for him.

 

Apparently junior high and high school are now part "law school for teens". Our 14-year-old daughter, after a couple of typical "teen restrictions" were imposed, cam home one day to announce that she wanted to be legally emancipated. She also notified us of her rights, especially her privacy rights (no looking in her wastebasket!).

After informing her what SHE would be responsible for following emancipation, I challenged her to get the legal papers. In that heated atmosphere, it was a bit of a risk. She didn't do it.

However, I'm not smug. Despite having raised two children more or less successfully, let me be the first parent at PC to admit I "lost" a daughter---the one above---to that wonderfully American trifecta: sex, drugs and rock n' roll.

There are individual differences in kids that defy explanation.