Proper Parenting

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Jun 21 2006, 05:46 AM) [snapback]274561[/snapback]</div>

It doesn't sound like there is "blame". It sounds like a zillion other normal and good families that for whatever reason someone takes things too far. I lost a cousin to a drug overdose about 10 years ago. It happens. Other family members have gone wild, "drugs, sex, rock&roll" and later returned to earth to land great jobs and raise children of their own. We are all a bit different and respond in our own way. It isn't about blame it is about how we deal with reality.

 

I went through a rebellious streak as a teenager, as did my siblings, and we all turned out to be respectable, professional, successful people. I think that if a child's upbringing has a good foundation, they'll usually make it through that period OK. But of course it isn't easy for the parents, and you have to stay on top of it.

I don't believe that discipline has to be physical. That doesn't mean that my wife or I never had to occasionally use a "swat" to get one of our daughter's attention, but we never used spanking or the threat of it as punishment. My wife and I both work, so we've had to rely on daycare, au pairs, etc., but we never abdicated our responsibility as parents. We've always set limits, chosen our battles (if they don't eat their dinner, they won't starve, they'll just have to wait until breakfast), and instilled early on that they are responsible for the outcome of their decisions. So far, our daughters (one almost 10, the other 11) have excelled in school and have developed into really nice, well-rounded children. WHile I sort-of dread the teenage years, I know that they'll be fine.

Physical beating, or the opposite extreme of just ignoring children and letting them get away with anything, are both abuse as far as I'm concerned. I se parents do things that I personally don't agree with, but, recognizing that parenting is the most challenging (and most important) job there is, I don't necessarily criticize others for doing it differently than I would. But there are some people who are just incompetent and raising children (as there are people who are ill-equipped for any endeavor), but in this case the children suffer as a result.

 

I think we can just elect Hillary president, then let her and her village of aclu lawyers raise our kids.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Jun 21 2006, 10:15 AM) [snapback]274628[/snapback]</div>

The fact that you put "the village" line and the ACLU together once again shows your lack of thinking.

I hate to tell you, but that "it takes a village" line rings true. When I was a kid, every person in the neighborhood knew all the kids...and if one of us stepped out of line, did something stupid (like, for instance, getting on top of an unoccupied house and ripping off shingles, etc...), then those same neighbors would immediately tell our parents OR, conversely, punish us in some other way (time outs, stern talking-tos, sit in a corner, etc.). Which would, of course, mean a double-trouble for those responsible--one punishment for the behavior in the first place, and the other for embarrassing the family in front of neighbors.

I miss those days...nowadays, unfortunately, when the parents get told that their child was a dumbass for something or other, many will automatically switch into "defense" mode, aka "not MY darling angel of a child." Fortunately, I believe in what the village has to offer me as a parent. You can bet that if my kid gets told on by a neighbor, there will be rare instances when I switch to "defend" mode. Instead, I'll be like mine--the discipline now two-fold.

My son is two and a half, and certainly tries my patience on a daily basis. I am determined, though, to turn him into an upstanding young man through role-modeling, lots and lots of love, and firm discipline. He must always know I love him more than anything in this world, but also realize that we aren't friends. When he grows up, we can be friends then.

Does it ever concern any other parents out there that if you instill values in your child (honesty, hard work, loyalty, dedication, playing by the rules, etc.), that he/she will be at a loss when faced with others in the world who were raised to deceive, manipulate, break rules to win, etc.? Just curious...love to hear your thoughts.

 

Livelychick,

In FHOP, daron rambles on a lot like that... you get used to it, and then his future posts become funny... I actually love it when one of his rambles spurts out.

PS I have a few friends at Vtech!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Jun 21 2006, 10:31 AM) [snapback]274639[/snapback]</div>

I consider myself, and my children, really fortunate. We live in a town of 5,000 people on the water, where everyone knows everyone else. I had the same experience as you growing up - everyone went outside and played together (no "playdates"), and the parents really were a community that looked after each other's kids. We sort of have that in the town where I live, although of course there aren't as many mothers around during the day. But I have have several friends who are single mothers, and here there is more of a sense of a community where they don't feel that they are raising their kids on their own.
I often rail against suburban sprawl and the creation of exurbs because of its forcing our dependence on oil. But it has also resulted in the disassociation of people from community- we're a nation of people who come home from work, piull our car into the garage, and close ourselves off from the world. And I don't think the kids who come home and play video games in their rooms are having as much fun as my friends and I did playing stickball in the street.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Jun 21 2006, 09:31 AM) [snapback]274639[/snapback]</div>

What I fear most is the other 'parents' of the world. I know for certain that my husband and I will make great role models and parents. What I don't know is who my child will befriend and how said friends will be raised... or not raised. My brother and I grew up in a single family home. My mom was stern in her parenting and we are both very respectful of her as a person. She is very much my hero.

I fell into a good crowd of friends. I've always been intuitive about people and know who to steer clear of. My brother, however, fell into the wrong group of friends and even now, it continues to be an issue. Being from the south, I have been witness to a good many people with children who are not even fit to care for themselves. It's a scary thing to consider that my kids may be influenced by kids who don't know right from wrong.

 

I don't think I could even begin to imagine the concerns of a parent... luckily I did not grow up with the wrong crowd... but that is because I too grew up in a community environment. Sometimes I wondered why the heck did my parents come to a rural place in WV to raise us, but it makes more sense because of the community atmosphere here.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Jun 21 2006, 09:31 AM) [snapback]274639[/snapback]</div>

Hillary's village is not a nice small town community where everyone knows everyone and someone is going to tell you that it was your kid spray painting the water tower. Do you think Hillary's village is a big community group hug? No way.

Hillary's village is the 'village' aka, schools, local law, federal law, all telling all of us how we can and can not parent. We can tell them no.. if it's in a low calm voice. We can't spank our kid because that's not part of the 'village' policy. The 'village' is state and so all the social policy pushed on us as the village raises our kids is absent of any moral content or persuasion that could otherwise come from the religious persuasion of the family.

The 'village' is a big culmonation of the liberal social programs all in one nice package. The 'village' chooses to teach my kid how to use a condom in first grade when I believe that my kid should just be a kid for a few more years, then learn sexual morality from my wife and I at home when we believe our child is ready.

And, most importantly, once the village is raising the kids, mom and dad America can both go off to their jobs, try to make a lot of money to support more stuff so that they can all be happy. And, we can all pay the higher taxes that come with having the village raise our kids. In the end, my kid turns out to be like Hillary. How horrible would that be... No child should have to turn out like Hillary!!! yikes..

 

Woohoo! Another hilarious daron rant! That's great material for Colbert on the Comedy Channel!!!!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Jun 21 2006, 10:40 AM) [snapback]274663[/snapback]</div>

Yes, followed by one of your more intelligent replies!! hahahaaa..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Jun 21 2006, 11:40 AM) [snapback]274663[/snapback]</div>

Changing the subject (sorry- didn't mean to hijack the thread!) did you see Colbert's bit about snakes last night? Hilarious! :lol:

 

I haven't seen it, but I'm already laughing wondering what it's about! I'll have to get the episode off itunes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Jun 21 2006, 11:38 AM) [snapback]274662[/snapback]</div>

Of course I don't agree with you...you know that...but I can understand why you don't want anyone telling you how to parent. That's okay, of course, providing you are doing at least a decent job of parenting.

How 'bout those so-called parents who are really just sperm/egg donors, and aren't good parents? D'ya think it's okay to leave the children (innocents) twisting in the wind? Or is it there that your view of the "village" should help? Or, wait, let me guess...you'd rather them start committing crimes in middle school, get stuck in the system, then become one of "THOSE" people living off the system, either in jail or public assistance. Then, at least, you still have people to rail against.

I do understand some of what you said...I'm a terrific Mom, and focus daily on what I can do to make my son a happy, healthy, productive member of society; because of that, I may become irritated if an institution told me how to parent him. On the other hand, I may also be happy that someone else is actually looking out for him, and is concerned about his well-being. I prefer to take that tack.

But I just have to wonder about all the parents out there who aren't concerned about being parents. I like my idea of the village...and in the case of horrible parents, I even like your idea of the village. It's like Keanu Reeves (go ahead and laugh, but it was terrific movie) said in "Parenthood," "Ya know Ms. Buckman, you need a license to drive a car. You need a license to buy a dog. Hell, you even need a license to catch a fish. But they'll let any butt-reaming donkey be a father." Whaddya propose we do with the kids of those?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Jun 21 2006, 12:56 PM) [snapback]274700[/snapback]</div>

OK- I am not going to go off the subject of this thread any more (I promise), but here's one line:
"I have nothing against people marrying snakes- as long as they're not gay snakes!"

 

LOL! I can't wait to see it!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Jun 21 2006, 12:04 PM) [snapback]274708[/snapback]</div>

I can agree there are some parents who aren't raising their kids. My best answer would be for basically nothing to be done until the fruit falls off the tree... meaning...

The government is hands off, so it's up to you to parent your kids.

If you fail to parent them, one day that which you have planted is going to produce a harvest. This harvest is going to be your kid getting in trouble with the law. When that happens, sentence the kid to some high amount of community service and also sentence the parent to work with the child in that.

Raise your kid to be a blight on society, plan to spend that whole time from age 12 to 18 working road crews on the weekends with your child. If you raise your kid(or fail to) and your kid commits a felony and gets locked up, then while the kid is locked up, the parent is cracking out some level of community service, and once the kid gets out on probation, parent and kid are doing it together.

Find me anyone (especially a teenager) who doesn't hate spending their saturday picking up junk from the road. Probably ramp this up depending on the trouble the kid is getting in. First time, maybe 10 hours or something more minimal so that both parent and kid get the idea that somethign better change or life is going to get tough. Then, ramp it up for future offenses.

I'm fine with your idea if you can figure out how someone is going to seperate you (who wants to raise their kids) from all those people you say are 'failing' to raise their kids and then we can move on with making people be responsible for their kids. The problem is the 'standards' by which you make the seperation. Someone who lays around on the sofa all day while their kids tear up the neighborhood may think they are a great parent because they love their kids enough to give them 'freedom' to play, whereas you are not a great parent because you insist that your kids actually behave when you are at the mall/park. Maybe by their standards, you are the bad parent for not letting your kid run and play with the other kids at night.. You're so 'restrictive'. You really could scar your kid by giving out a consequence. You should be more tolerant of their 'expressions of themselves' (bad behavior).

So, my bottom line is to give people who feel they have enough responsibility to participate in the act of making a child to also have the incentive to raise the child to be a good citizen.

 

Well said, daron.