Question for 2012-2015 PIP Owners

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by iskoos, Jan 25, 2020.

  1. iskoos

    iskoos Active Member

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    I have just posted this under Gen3 Main forum (didn't know this sub-forum existed). Thanks to member "Grit" for pointing this out.

    So here we go:

    I did some research and it seems the 2012-2015 Prius PHV(or PIP) has 5.2KWh battery pack. Another source states 3.7KWh. I need a confirmation on this first. Or is it something else?

    If it is 5.2kWh, it is like 4 times the capacity of a regular Gen3 hybrid pack.

    I would like to know if the pack has the same type of NiMH cell (6-cell 6500mAh) modules.

    And if so is it exactly 4 times (if it is really 5.2KWh) the number of modules 4x28=112 individual (6cell 6500mAh NiMH) modules?

    Thanks
     
  2. sillylilwabbit

    sillylilwabbit Active Member

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    PIP’s Have lithium ion batteries.


    iPhone ?
     
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    Page 614 of owner's manual (downloadable from Toyota Tech Info site, manuals section) has this:

    upload_2020-1-25_20-0-10.png

    What are Watts again, volts times amperes? Would kilowatt hours then be:

    3.7x21.5x56/1000=4.45

    Not sure.
     
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  4. iskoos

    iskoos Active Member

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    They used Lithium cells on the previous version PIP?

    I was thinking they used Nickel Metal Hydrate.

    Per the above chart, it adds up tp 4.45kWh as Mendel states.
    Thanks Mendel.
     
  5. 4est

    4est Active Member

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    4.4 kwh, usable 2.7kwh lithium battery
    Even when "depleted" it works much better than standard battery
     
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  6. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Quite similar to the Prime other than size and refinements. It so far appears to be a terrific battery other than the cold weather hit all Lithium-ion batteries take. Also, take note of @4est's important comment that not all of the capacity is usable. That's SOP for Toyota to preserve battery life.
     
  7. iskoos

    iskoos Active Member

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    Okay. So 4.45KWh calculation Mendel provided is correct then. 4est says 4.4KWh 2.7 usable.
    Now is the capacity reserved for Hybrid operation included in that 2.7KWh as well?

    Because in plug-in cars there is only one battery. They reserve portion of it for hybrid operation.
    So thinking that Gen3 Prius requires about 1.3KWh for hybrid operation, then if 2.7KWh includes this 1.3 in it, then there is only 1.4KWh designed to be use for pure EV driving and that is really nothing.

    Is it like that or Hybrid capacity kicks in after the 2.7KWh capacity has been used?

    I hope I was able to explain my question well. It is kind of confusing I admit.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    no. usable depends on the health of the battery and ambient temp, but there is always an unusable reserve at the top and bottom like all toyota ev's.

    when the wall charge runs out, the capacity is similar to hv operation of gen3 lift back.

    two caveats: it will no longer let you into ev mode when there is no wall charge as the lift back sometimes allows.
    and, the battery does have the capacity to fully regen if you were coming down a mountain or similar.

    where i live, in the flat lands, i have never been able to regen back into wall charge capacity area.
     
  9. 4est

    4est Active Member

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    2.7 usable as ev then goes into hv mode.
    So i guess it uses the rest of the battery for hv mode

    I did manage to fully regen the battery once, while coming down from a mountain
    All other cars were using (some) gas. Only me was gaining mileage :)
     
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  10. iskoos

    iskoos Active Member

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    4est, what was the max EV miles you were able to attain with a fully charged pack (under perfect conditions - All flat, no wind etc.)?
     
  11. 4est

    4est Active Member

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    I don't live in a flat area.
    But I'd say about 22 km
     
  12. iskoos

    iskoos Active Member

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    That translates to about 13-14 miles. The Factory spec for this car was only 11miles. So you did good in this case.
    I was thinking about upgrading to this plug-in model but I didn't find good reviews online. People were complaining about the EV range and how underpowered the vehicle was on EV mode. Even some official reviewers didn't give a good review. So I kind of stirred away from it. I will try to wait for the used Prius Primes to hit the market.

    But all this time I was thinking the battery modules were NiMH. Now I learned they weren't.
     
  13. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Coming down off Clingman's Dome in the Smokies a couple years ago in my PiP, i went from fully depleted at the top to completely full and using engine braking before I reached bottom. It just depends on how big the hill is. ;)
     
  14. 4est

    4est Active Member

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    EV power is good enough. You have to rev up the ICE a lot in order to get the same power. So going uphill is much nicer in EV compared to HV
    Of course the Ampera (Volt) I too have is much more powerful
    But driving the Plug in Prius in HV feels much more different compared to a regular Prius. It's just like a regular prius with a full battery. EV power is much higher, even in HV mode.
    Also the HV battery seems to last more than regular Prius (depletes slowly)
    And on long trips I get much better mileage (I dont understand why)
    But the acceleration is worse, the regular Prius seems much more quick to 100kph
     
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  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if you have any interest at all, browse the threads in this forum. mine is perfect for me, but not for everyone. depends on your needs.
    prime is much better in many ways, but the raised hatch floor has kept me from switching.

    depending on your driving conditions, ev miles are generally reported between 8 and 16 or so.

    there's no heat pump, which is a major bebefit to prime, along with battery size and many other improvements.
     
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  16. QuantumFireball

    QuantumFireball Active Member

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    "Fully charged" is about 85% SOC, and EV mode disengages (ICE starts) at 23% SOC. Then in hybrid mode I think it can do down to around 18% SOC (based on my own observations).

    85-23= 62% is the usable capacity in EV mode
    62% of 4.45 kWh is 2.76 kWh
    So I'd guess the usable capacity including HV mode is closer to 3 kWh, which is often also noted as the total usable capacity for this battery.
     
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  17. iskoos

    iskoos Active Member

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    So you are telling me EV mode feels more powerful(when the batteries are full) than when the ICE is running?

    Our standard Prius feels super sluggish on EV mode especially when you need to go uphill. I had to go up to a parking garage 2nd level on EV only mode once with 3 adults in the car and it almost stalled in the EV mode. I had to kick in the gas engine.

    I think here you mean when the battery pack is full. I cannot imagine how different it could be when the plug-in battery depleted and the car reverts to normal Hybrid operation.

    Also when you use "HV" do you mean "Hybrid Vehicle" or "High Voltage"?

     
  18. 4est

    4est Active Member

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    by HV I ment Hybrid mode

    you should try the car first. As you have experience with regular Prius, you'll feel the difference immediately.
    I have a friend with a regular Prius and after only the first 10m he already said it's a different feeling already
     
  19. iskoos

    iskoos Active Member

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    Himmm, you made me curious now. I had the opportunity to test-drive one two weeks ago but I skipped. Mainly because I was thinking that it had standard NIMH cells and the car was 2013. I concluded that it would have been waste of time.
    Now I am thinking I wish I would have seen it. The market flooded with standard Prius Liftbacks but it is kind of difficult to find a Gen1 PHV. You get one every once in a while.
    Now that I know it has lipo cells, then you told me that it feels very differently and also as Bisco reminded the uneven hatch floor (I very much dislike the raised hatch floor.), I will try to test drive one.
    I love how the current Gen3 liftback's hatch floor gives you an even floor all the way to the front seats when you put the rear seats down.

    Prius Prime has a raised hatch floor. And check that Gen4 Prius II Eco also has uneven hatch floor but this time it is a lower hatch floor not raised.
     
  20. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Why do you think the chemistry of the battery matters?
    The battery chemistry just determines the size/weight and longevity for the most part.
    What matters, from a driving perspective, is the capacity (kwh) and the charge and discharge rate when driving.

    Mike
     
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