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Quick and dirty rebalance...

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by ChaseE, Nov 14, 2021.

  1. ChaseE

    ChaseE Junior Member

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    Still haven't started rebalance, waiting for some parts to arrive to connect to the meanwell power supply...

    Spent yesterday using a orbital and meguires ultimate cutting compound cleaning off all the nasty paint oxidization, should have taken a before/after photo, it literally looked like someone had plastidip'd the thing matte white. There was also algae and moss growing in every crack and crevice so that was fun cleaning. Going to polish and apply ceramic sealant so I won't have to mess with it for another year, besides the front left fender and bumper will need replacing anyway with an eventual junkyard find.

    Also did a top end cleaning on the motor with CRC GDI intake valve cleaner...I have to do it for the wife's 1.6L turbo gdi engine in her hyundai every 10k miles, so I have a 6 pack of them and figured why not? Wow. After letting the stuff heat soak for 45min I took it on some full throttle runs to 60mph and it made quite the smoke show for a few minutes. Engine idle is now buttery smooth, and feels like I gained a bit more power again based on the pedal angle I'm holding around 35-40mph. Worth doing imo based on the results if the top end has never been cleaned.

    They had a fleet of 70, and apparently over the course of a weekend someone broke into their yard and stole ALL the cats...given that they have policy to replace with OEM parts only, administration decided it wasn't worth spending 2-3k per car on something 15-17yrs old so they auctioned them.
     
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  2. nancytheprius

    nancytheprius Active Member

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    selling 70 prius, OEM, and low mileage catalytic converters had to have been a big score for that thief
     
  3. ChaseE

    ChaseE Junior Member

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    Here's some pictures of the outside post detail, you can see the fender that will need replacing eventually, some pretty decent chunks out of the paint on the driver's side front door as well.

    Something I didn't notice previously is it looks like there's a crack in the lower hatch glass, tiny chip with a crack about 4" in length...not sure what to do about it, have read about that glass exploding on people with even the slightest damage, or sometimes no damage at all! Suggestions if anyone has them would be appreciated...
     

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  4. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    With DrPrius showing 88%, not sure why you'd want to open the pack. Double that if you don't have previous experience with charge and balance. Triple if using a bare meanwell LED power supply.

    safelite autoglass? the 4" split will probably make a repair impossible, can always ask and or get a replacement estimate, so you'll have a ballpark figure to work with.
     
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  5. landspeed

    landspeed Active Member

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    That is good; I think you will find that you get better real-life mileage than even the 'revised-down' estimates. I have to check re: what car you had before. I borrowed a Yaris Hybrid from the Toyota dealer when I was getting the inverter coolant pump replaced (for free on a 2007 model in 2021......) - the mileage was *astounding*. But it has a lithium-ion battery. Great but not as hardy as NiMHs.

    Do check the inverter coolant pump (when cold, switch car on, remove the cap for the inverter coolant and check that there *is* turbulence). I bet you know this and I look stupid for posting it, but still :)

    The Gen 2 is very over-engineered, and your one is barely run in. The driver's side front wing / fender with the rust; that can be removed from the car, sanded down, phosphoric acid painted, then painted with white 'Hammerite' (UK brand but basically white metal paint).
     
  6. landspeed

    landspeed Active Member

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    Definitely this! the HV battery can kill you easily (seriously, DC current and high voltage). However in the future, with the proper equipment you can open it and work on it safely. Are you using iOS or Android with the Bluetooth adapter? There are some apps you can use when driving the car normally (don't be distracted!). Such apps can help with improving fuel economy later, but you can keep an eye on that *slightly* weak module.

    There are 'supply chain failures' looming. If you can find a dirt cheap NWH20 high-voltage battery, post the link on here for people to check. One thing you could do is obtain such a spare battery, and slowly work on it in the garage, test all the cells, and when the slightly weak cell in your current battery dies, you will have lots of spare slices! I did this and got two packs. One was a frankenstein pack of 'rejects' from a dodgy NZ 'reconditioning' company. I found that out too late. I still rescued most of the modules using a hobby charger, and my NWH11 2003 now has Gen 2 modules and has been going strong despite me not matching the modules... but I took ages characterising each one. I would highly recommend getting a spare battery, ideally one that has failed and been pulled from a working car and not messed with. A great learning experience, and great spares for if or when the supply chains go down!
     
  7. landspeed

    landspeed Active Member

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    I'm not saying you should do this. However, get some quotes for replacement glass. Make sure you put that money aside, and have a plan to get it replaced safely. Next, make sure you have somewhere safe to store the car to prevent weather (and maybe break-ins) if you crack the rear glass.

    I had a windscreen crack on my 2007. I used a kit which injects resin into the crack, from 'Super Cheap Auto' in NZ. Most ?all auto parts stores should have this in stock. The crack was slightly larger than the legal limit (by a few mm). The crack is now just a tiny chip where the stone hit it. You can't see the crack. It's lasted through winter and frost too.

    A kit like this might allow this crack to be filled. Ideally, clean carefully with isopropyl alcohol. And do it in stages - under cover. My kit needed sunlight to cure the resin. It might be possible to fix this. Or it could make it crack totally! Either way doing it before winter is recommended, otherwise water will get into the crack, and expand during a frost, and crack the window even more.
     
  8. ChaseE

    ChaseE Junior Member

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    The reason I wanted to open the pack was because of the measured internal resistance being out of spec, the fact that there was algae and moss growing on the car including inside the windows leads me to believe that there has been adequate condensation due to the lack of use that could definitely have caused corrosion on the copper. If I discovered corrosion on the bus bars, the plan was going to be spending $60 on a new bus bar wire loom combo, and $40 on nickel plated bus bars to replace out on everything.

    I'm not an electrical engineer, but I do have a quality voltmeter and a soldering gun. One of my hobbies is building ebikes, and while I don't build battery packs myself for them I have had to do repairs in the past like replacing cells a bad BMS. I do realize though that I am working with 240v not 52, so safety is the highest priority.

    The meanwell power supply is the 257v 350ma.. The plan will be to set up a permanent cable using ring terminals, an inline fuse, and a female xt60 (with rubber end cap) to the battery terminal side that I can keep in the car, and then trickle charge once a month to keep the cells balanced monitoring with the voltmeter. If I do this right I should only have to pull the pack once, at least that's how it works in my head.

    I appreciate the suggestion, I might get that a try with some permatex...I'm worried about this one though. Normally any rock chip repair I've done before is with a circular type chip that hasn't spidered out more than an inch diameter. The chip in this seems to be aligned with the crack itself, and I'm not sure if the resin will completely fill or not. Only one way to find out I guess! I will start getting quotes now just in case as the odds of it getting worse are high now that winter is upon us and it will likely be stressed from freezing temperatures and defrost
     
  9. nancytheprius

    nancytheprius Active Member

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    Yes you seem to be very thorough, so as long as you follow all the steps and torques you will be good! For the average person the “if it’s working fine, just leave it alone” mentality applies, but you’ve clearly done your research! Please post your results and findings as you keep working on your prius! I would suggest cleaning your hybrid battery cooling fan as well while you’ve got your battery exposed. It’s fairly simple and my prius had low mileage when i got it and cleaned the cooling fan too, and it was still surprisingly filthy!
     
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  10. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Chase it's your car and you see things about the car we don't.
    Still, I'm right behind @TMR-JWAP recommendation Quick and dirty rebalance... | PriusChat
    for several reasons. The amount of time it takes. The plan of attack using the meanwell. (it may not function the way you expect ii should) Interpretation of the ( negitive? ) DrPrius data. (I don't see it and I'd be interested in how @TMR-JWAP describes it further than in his first posts on pg 1.) Which voltage specs you'll be looking to monitor during both charge and discharge cycles. And plenty more besides.
    .
    Again, it's your car, just wouldn't want to see a GEM2 have new problems that could possibly be avoided.

    My recommendation would be to get a used gen 3 low mileage pack. I think someone else also recommended that above. Lots more options available to you that way.

    just suggestions for you to consider as you dive into the pack reconditioning realm. It's a long winding road for most. if not all..
     
    #30 vvillovv, Nov 23, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
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  11. ChaseE

    ChaseE Junior Member

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    I appreciate the advice, and based on the suggestions by folks with what seems like a lot of experience I will take my time researching a bit more to prepare before I dive in. Part of the impetus to remove the pack is preventative maintenance to keep maximum conductivity hopefully for the next 30-50k miles, the other part is my sheer curiosity...I'm that kid that had fun at 6yrs old taking a telephone apart and putting it back together again much to my parent's dismay lol. I fully understand that if I short something it would cause a lot more trouble than the intent.

    Regarding the rebalance, for now I was just planning on topping off the pack to leak voltage to the slightly weaker cells, not going through multiple discharge cycles to wipe any memory. After more testing, the largest voltage variance regardless of idle or driving condition is 0.25v between the strongest (#1) and weakest (#7) block. Dr. Prius app shows poor balance in blocks 7, 8, 11, 12 in its battery test most consistently, though if you run it multiple times it will show different blocks occasionally (5, 6, 13, 14) so im skeptical of the accuracy/validity of it's test.

    Also let me say, I'm excited to join this community! There appears to be a host of active, like-minded, technically inclined folks willing to provide input. I'll do my best to filter the bonehead questions out of posts with the search function. :)
     
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  12. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Which is a top balance and given what you've said would give you the best bang for you buck and time.
    This is actually reasonable and a good thing. You'd want different blocks showing up and the more random the better.
     
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  13. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Okay so my battery lasted 20 years in my 09 or late '08 whatever so if I had the charger and the plug and all this business and did all this trickle charging once a month or every two weeks or whatever I'm going to get more than 20 years out of the battery pack I just don't see it personally but okay

    SM-A715F ?
     
  14. ChaseE

    ChaseE Junior Member

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    The idea for me is to get as close to factory new spec as possible so a. It is as efficient as Toyota engineered it and b. The engine, cooling system, BMS have less work to do for longevity's sake...an ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure and all that.

    The meanwell power supply, tune up parts, cat, pack sensor loom, etc by the end of this means roughly a $500 investment on a vehicle I purchased at a significant discount via auction...I can very likely drive this thing for 10ys and STILL sell it for more than I paid for it which is a pretty amazing feat...but thats only likely to happen if I apply the utmost care from day one of ownership. Reliable, overbuilt used cars tend to have a market forever in my experience
     
    #34 ChaseE, Nov 26, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021