Rainbow Prius Hybrid Powered by Lithium!

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by jacktheripper, Dec 24, 2019.

  1. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2017
    5,302
    3,737
    1
    Location:
    Wilkes Land
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    o_O
     
  2. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    1,968
    1,265
    0
    Location:
    Somewhere in Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2013 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
    High quality balanced Lithium chemistries can top 98% charge efficiency up through 9X% SOC
    NiMH are only 75-85% efficient at the cell level if kept out of the “knee”, with a higher self discharge and higher internal resistance than lithium.

    Having owed an antique EV, our group has found effiency from the wall to move from 330wthr/mile to
    220wthr/mile by just changing from nickle batteries to LIFE and obviously changing charger types.

    so I guess, yes it’s a thing
    Dude you need to calm down, any time a financial interest is at play you will get ZERO information like you are requesting until well after these things are for sale (if they ever go up for sale)

    Just enjoy the silliness being posted and keep it light hearted until these are for sale, then feel free to evaluate and destroy
     
  3. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2017
    5,302
    3,737
    1
    Location:
    Wilkes Land
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Thanks for your clarification about the two battery recharging capability. Now back to my original comment you quoted, will the Prius increase it’s charging Amperage to the battery now that the lithium batteries are in place of the ni hm?
     
  4. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    1,968
    1,265
    0
    Location:
    Somewhere in Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2013 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
    Cycling efficiency goes up so the apparent time it takes to “charge up” seems faster at the same amperage
    also internal resistance is lower (especially if we are comparing a worn nimh to new lithium)
    which could, but not necessarily does allow more charging amperage while staying below voltage limits.

    You would need to log amperage/kw/voltage side by side before/after scenarios at full throttle and full regen to see.

    If I had to guess nobody is going to give you that info until long after release
     
  5. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    4,433
    4,713
    0
    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Considering I have asked a very basic question, several times, and not gotten a straight answer, I wouldn't expect much. Maybe if I word it slightly different?

    When an OEM Gen 2 Prius HV battery depletes to the point the SOC indicator shows 2 purple bars, we know the SOC is approximately 42%. Why? Because the car is 'programmed/calibrated/algorithmed/whatever' for an NiMH battery and is looking at a NiMH battery.
    Now, with the lithium battery installed, when the battery depletes to the point the SOC indicator shows 2 purple bars, what is the actual SOC of the battery? It sure as heck isn't 42%. I use the assumption it's 10% because the developer says this battery uses 80% of it's range.

    Anyone here own a motorcycle? The last one I owned had a 3.2 gallon fuel tank and a 0.8 gallon reserve tank. Hopefully, you never need to use the reserve, but sh*t happens. I was looking at buying a custom replacement tank for it. The first question I had was tank capacity. The second question was how big is the reserve? Why? Because sh*t happens and it's a good thing to know. I'd be pretty upset if I had to go to reserve, expected it to be ~0.8 gallons, good for 30 miles or so, and then find out it's actually only a half-pint and end up on the side of the road.

    Why do members here always ask 'how far can I drive my car when I get to one flashing dot on the fuel gauge?'. Some members here have purposely run out of fuel over and over again to test that number. Why? maybe it's a good thing to know. I know I can go at least 20 miles after it starts flashing.

    There are hundreds, if not thousands of cars, everyday, that fail to start due to fuel, air or spark issues or just run out of gas flying down the highway. When sh*t hits the fan, wouldn't it be nice to know how many tries you have before you're totally in trouble with a fully depleted battery. I know for fact that one of my batteries can give me at least 7 tries, minimum, from the point of 2 purple bars. Lithium batteries are great. There's no doubt about it. Every cordless item I own is now lithium. I would have no problem at all putting a lithium battery in my car, but I certainly want to know what I'm getting into. A bit like that motorcycle fuel tank. What I'm asking is not a complicated question, especially for something that has been tested for 'years' yet there is never an answer provided...…………

    Regardless of what anyone thinks, this SOC indicator is NEVER going to calibrate itself to a lithium battery unless a programming change is performed. Certainly, the real number/information is available. If we know what the actual SOC is when it turns purple and when it turns green, then we can at least extrapolate what each bar is worth in regard to SOC. Maybe it could even work out perfect that each bar is = to 10% from bottom to top. That could be a great thing and could actually be a selling point.
     
    Samuel Williams Jr likes this.
  6. AzusaPrius

    AzusaPrius Active Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2020
    886
    425
    0
    Location:
    Apple Valley
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Max Taiwan and Jim Swart like this.
  7. tony_2018

    tony_2018 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2019
    129
    45
    0
    Location:
    78717
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    How's the battery pack holding up?
     
  8. AzusaPrius

    AzusaPrius Active Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2020
    886
    425
    0
    Location:
    Apple Valley
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    tony_2018 likes this.
  9. tony_2018

    tony_2018 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2019
    129
    45
    0
    Location:
    78717
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Cool, waiting on those summer stats.
     
  10. TheChip

    TheChip Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    382
    1,190
    0
    Location:
    Misissippi
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    No, from what I've seen the charging amerage is the same with the lithium pack as it is with the stock pack.
     
  11. Max Taiwan

    Max Taiwan Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2019
    420
    378
    0
    Location:
    Taipei
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius c
    Model:
    Base
  12. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    4,433
    4,713
    0
    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Interesting article, more of an opinion article, as most are now-a-days in the media, but still pretty poor for someone who says they are:

    an automotive consultant specializing in electric cars and hybrid battery technologies. He holds a Bachelor of Science in Automotive Service Technology from Weber State University.

    His quotes:

    I noticed that the battery had far less weight by a good 40 to 60 pounds.
    Really? All that training and specialization to throw a wide range out like that. He cant figure out the actual difference in weight? A NiMH module weighs ~2.2 pounds, so 28 modules would be just under 62 pounds. So based on this, and disregarding any wiring weight difference, each module is 1.47 to 2.14 pounds lighter? IIRC, an oem Gen 2 assembly is about 83 pounds overall. Certainly for an article he could weigh one of each to throw a fact into the article. The modern day norm, I suppose. Facts are optional. Opinion, written to simulate fact, is much more common.

    I was getting 39 mpg before, and the car did not go into EV. Now I get 47 miles per gallon
    And...with all his specialization, did he think he didn't have a problem with the car at 39mpg? There are plenty of cars exceeding 47 mpg with the original OEM battery, so this STAT he throws out there is useless.

    and I stay in
    EV range for almost 3 miles when the battery is charged fully.
    Yet, he doesn't explain WHY. Does he even understand why? Even with all his specialization?

    It would be so refreshing just to see one person do an actual review to include a complete, unbiased comparison and appraisal. There is no product in the world that has only 'positives'. And if that's all that's ever available in a review, I prefer to stay away from it.

    It's kind of like a spark plug company installing a set of their latest and greatest gimmick into a car with 150k original plugs and then claiming how much improvement their plugs caused, when a new set of any plugs would likely do near or exactly the same. Show me a comparison against 5 other brand new plugs being used in a normal engine, under normal circumstances. IDGAD if you make 2 more HP at 10,000 rpm in race car, if all I'm doing is driving to work every day.
     
  13. Attila Fekete

    Attila Fekete Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2019
    161
    53
    0
    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I think it depends on the weight of Li-ion batteries’ weight - which may vary. By the way, my P3 from 2015 has different battery pack than the olders model (G9510-47060 vs G9510-76010), so weight difference can be there also.
     
  14. cnc97

    cnc97 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    1,385
    1,493
    38
    Location:
    Evansville, IN
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three

    I put the newer pack in my 2010 this past weekend. I could not feel a weight difference between the two packs. They were both a pain in the rump to remove/replace. LoL
     
  15. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2017
    5,302
    3,737
    1
    Location:
    Wilkes Land
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    still on the original nimh battery and getting 65 mpg to the tank with 170,000 miles, clearly nimh has superior performance than a lighter and new lithium pack at 47 mpg.
     
    RMB and Rmay635703 like this.
  16. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    1,968
    1,265
    0
    Location:
    Somewhere in Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2013 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
    TMR-SWAP will have to be patient zero and provide a data logged test of the first public commercial packs for sale so we can get some
    A-B-A testing and abuse testing.

    Still antidotal but closer,
    he could also do some stress testing to see if he can fail the pack by leaving the ignition on in neutral or some other nonsense.

    That is Assuming these arrive at retail in the next 2 years.
     
  17. royrose

    royrose Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    1,292
    862
    4
    Location:
    Foot of Pikes Peak
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Not clear at all. You can't compare drivers and driving conditions. Maybe you would get 75 mpg with the Li batteries (and maybe not)

    ;););););)
     
  18. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2017
    5,302
    3,737
    1
    Location:
    Wilkes Land
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    he was critiquing the “article”

    And no one has posted short nor long term usage of the lithium battery with actual driving data. A few ask me how to do that after pages and pages of discussions, after that I realize no one was willing gather drive data so don’t hold your breathe for too long.
     
  19. jacktheripper

    jacktheripper Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    205
    393
    4
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Hi @TMR-JWAP ,

    sorry man, crazy busy here but I will try my best to read and answer.

    As you know the SOC is an approximated number and it keep getting re-calibrated from different events in order to keep everything in-check for safety and longevity.

    The test we are conducting is basically making sure whatever re-calibration events happen will maintain the lithium battery in that 80% safe reserve and never running out of range (either too low or too high). I did accidentally overnight discharge the lithium pack to 0 volt due to bad prototype circuit. And just like any NiMH Prius, the car throw error and not allow me to start, what I did was connecting the Prolong charger (245 VDC) to the pack for 10 minutes to revive the cells. It worked and that same lithium pack is still running on rainbow show car after all these years.

    I will continue to find new way to torture test the battery and super thankful for your input, I did think about your Spark plug approach but I am afraid that might destroy the old engine, not the battery :p

    Best,
    Jack


     
  20. jacktheripper

    jacktheripper Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    205
    393
    4
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    yup, I am sure one day people will post the result but please don't hold breathe :)
     
    #280 jacktheripper, Mar 13, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
Loading...