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Ran out of gas with one bar left. Did I damage the battery?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by jta98z, Oct 23, 2018.

  1. jta98z

    jta98z Junior Member

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    So I would like to think I know my Prius pretty well. However today it threw me a curve ball. I pulled into the Toyota dealer for an oil change with one pip left. Jumped in after it was finished and pulled out. Noticed within 20 feet it felt funny. Like the ICE was acting weird. Made it out of the lot and the dash lights came on. I immediately wheeled around and pulled back into the dealer. Even in this amount of time however, when I pulled back in the battery had drained to one bar. (It was only half when they finished with it though). The service guy took it back and pulled the codes and tried a few other things. Looks like I just ran out of gas even though I never got the low fuel warning.

    What I’m worried about however is the HV battery. I know he had tried to start it a few more times before he concluded I was out of gas. With such a low charge by this point, would they just be able to add gas and it work? What happens if the HV battery gets TOO low?
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    hard to say. normally, it takes a lot more driving, but 13 years is up there.
    how many miles on her?

    what was the outcome? did they fill the tank? did it start?
     
  3. jta98z

    jta98z Junior Member

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    174k miles but this isn’t the original battery. I have a rebuilt battery with Gen 3 cells that’s only about 6 months old.

    Unfortunately I had the last appointment of the day and the tech was 45m past when everyone was supposed to have been gone so he wasn’t able to get gas tonight. He’s going to tomorrow morning and give me a call.
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it will probably be fine
     
  5. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    +1.

    If original HV Batt, you should be happy you got 13yrs. Celebrate its longevity. Nothing to be sad.

    Maybe the lack of fuel pushed the HV Batt over the edge. But at 13yrs, if original, does it matter?

    When you try to operate on HV Batt only, due to low/no gas, the HV Batt will get drained too much, and will need to be rechaeged at the dealer or home via hobby chargers or Prolong charger.
     
  6. jta98z

    jta98z Junior Member

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    Ok now I’m getting myself psyched out reading around here. Really we’re working on the assumption that it’s out of gas. The P0A0F code was one they called out. While I read that can be caused by low fuel, there are a variety of other things that can cause it it seems.

    Whatever did it, if it isn’t fuel, something is mighty fishy that this happened immediately after they had it. The tech swears the oil isn’t overfilled. He says he checked. Also claims he checked the 12v battery. They always wash it after they’re finished so I wonder if someone did something stupid with the water?
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yeh, taking their word for everything definitely puts you at a disadvantage
     
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  8. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    P0A0F - Engine Failed to Start - PossibleCauses:
    • ECMs
    • FI system
    • Engine assembly
    • HV transaxle assembly
    • transmission input damper
    • wire harness/connector(s)
    • HV control ECU
    Lots of stuff to diagnose, if the obvious (low gas) does NOT resolve P0A0F.

    In the future:
    1) refuel NO Later than 1/4 tank or earlier?
    2) Verify the oil level has NOT been overfilled, before driving away from the service area. OR why not just change your own oil, if you are able to?

    READ. Horrors of an overfilled Prius Engine:
    Another Walmart oil overfill, Toyota is hinting at new ICE | PriusChat
     
  9. jta98z

    jta98z Junior Member

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    Hmm. If you read to the end of that thread, his actually was fixed with a new hybrid battery. Doesn't look like it ended up being the oil change. Its weird though that it didn't throw the HV battery code. I've replaced hybrid batteries and know the symptoms and codes. Mine exhibited none of that. Literally it drove perfectly into the shop, and ten feet out of the shop it died. The tech said it was filled just a fraction above the full mark, and if he's correct, that's about where they've always filled it to and never had problems.

    I've done a lot of reading on this issue and code and it seems a lot of people are experiencing this from dirty TB/MAF sensor, and a bad 12v battery. One guy even claimed a piece of leaf debris got in his airbox and obstructed the fuel flow or something and it was fine once he cleaned it. So I wonder if them pulling my air filter to try and get me to purchase one allowed some debris to get in. Don't know how the TB or MAF could have just gotten dirty the minute they changed the oil.

    This shop is also notorious for leaving my car on or in neutral and using the radio while they change the oil though because it typically comes back to me with a decent bit less battery than when I dropped it off. Tech said the 12v was fine but I understand it's hard to check a Prius 12v correctly?
     
  10. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    I would guess...
    That the OP is fine.
    I've always heard that Toyota designed the Prius, as far as Hybrid Battery charge status, to always strive to be in the "middle way".
    That is, when your battery shows full charge, it's not really fully charged. And conversely it also is not as low as it reads. It simpler terms, it's a battery not a gas tank, so fully charged isn't really a max, and 1 bar or 2 bars...isn't really hovering on totally depleted.

    I think the issue is you ran out of gas.

    My question is, if you are attentive enough to your cars needs, to get an oil change, why would you pull it into the dealership with one pip left, and a low state of charge?
    I wouldn't do it. I'd assume they are in a hurry, maybe don't put the highest trained tech on the Oil Changes, and they might not only start the vehicle to check for oil leaks, but also might keep doors open, etc while working on it.
    Handing a vehicle over to a 2nd party, while almost out of gasoline and in a low state of charge seems to be asking for unneeded trouble.

    That wasn't a curve ball. That was straight pitch right over the plate.
    What happened, was nearly about the only thing that could happen.
     
  11. jta98z

    jta98z Junior Member

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    Perhaps I need to clarify. I don’t mean that I came into the dealership with only one bar of battery. I came in with only one bar of gas. The battery was fine. Normal charge. Full blue bars if I recall. The mystery here is that I never got the blinking fuel light or warning. It seems to have run out with one solid pip left.

    There is a similar post on here of almost an identical situation from another guy. They added fuel, even though he had one solid bar, and it worked.
     
  12. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    I'm going to have to wait for the movie on this one, because the book has too many plot twists, but I'm thinking that the CAR is fine.

    The problem will probably be it's current location. ;)

    Good Luck!
     
  13. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    No, I got that you ran out of gas, and when you said "Pip" you were talking about your gas gauge.

    Hindsight is 20/20, but I wouldn't hand my vehicle over to a 2nd party, low on gasoline. Really once they pull it into the service bay, you have no idea what might happen. Left in accessory mode? Radio turned on?...engine ran to check for Oil Leaks....

    1 pip, SHOULD of been enough gasoline, but 1 pip..by definition is, well one pip....you're about as close to zero as possible.

    The good news, is I doubt you did any damage to your HV battery.

    You said you had 1 pip on the gas gauge when you pulled IN....
    Do you remember, when you attempted to leave if it was showing 1 pip?

    At least for now, I would assume you have no problem, and that you simply ran out of gasoline.
    Even though you weren't expecting it.
     
  14. jta98z

    jta98z Junior Member

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    Yes it still had one gas pip. But I was late to my appointment and was going to get gas right across the road once finished. I figured I was fine because the car had always warned me. I’ve driven 10-15 miles on the blinking light on a few occasions. In this instance, that never happened.
     
  15. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    If one gas pip and was not blinking or beeping I would say it did not run out of gas the engine stalled out because they over filled the oil on the oil change. Seen that here like hundreds of times.
    Literally hundreds of times.

    Dealer is the worst place ever to get the oil changed. Here’s why

    1. You can’t watch these knuckleheads.
    2. You don’t get the certified techs you get the dudes that are in the back of the building that only change oil
    3. They use pneumatic oil pumps with vat bulk oil. Most inaccurate device and the most crappiest of oil
    Since it’s very inaccurate they are instructed to always put a little more make sure it gets a lot of oil
    4. They never ever check the oil before hand so they can warn you hey you were really low on oil when you rolled in your car eats oil like most high mile Prius......your reply Is. wow I had no idea I should watch the oil level. And they never check the oil after. No one double checks there work.
    At say jiffy lube there’s akways someone else checking the original guys work.
    Not saying jiffy is good but at least there double checking.
    5. Long wait time with exposure to constant upsell and unnecessary repairs,

    Pros

    1. Donuts
    2. The false sense of security your doing it right and the dealer cares so I never have to open the hood again. Which is a death sentence for a 10 year old car. It’s dealer maintained who hoo !!
     
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  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yes, I was completely mislead by the title. I'm easily lead though... :rolleyes:
     
  17. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    +1

    That's why if you're poor, it's often cheaper to just buy a new car every 4-5 years and make monthly payments than it is to drive a ten year old car and rely on a dealer to swing wrenches.
     
  18. jta98z

    jta98z Junior Member

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    So if thats the case, is that as simple as them draining some of the oil and it working?

    Also, I don't rely on the dealer for repairs. I only let them do oil changes. Been going here for two years without an issue.
     
    #18 jta98z, Oct 24, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    It would be cheaper yet to buy that car every 4~5 years but pay cash. Borrowing to buy the car is always more expensive in the long run, is it not?

    I went to a "new owners night" at our local dealership, and we took a look through their servicie department. In one room there were several large graduated pitchers on a counter, with pre-measured amounts for pending oil change jobs.

    Also, I used to buy bottled Toyota 0W20, but a few years back started thinking about all those used oil bottles going into the recycle stream, basically because of my insecurity. I bought a 10 liter gas can, and a large graduated pitcher, and talked to the dealership: now I'm buying their synthetic 0W20, and recently also non-synth 5W20 for our daughter's Pilot.

    They say both oils are Toyota, and the 0W20 is the same oil as the bottled. I've no reason to doubt them; it certainly looks and performs the same, it's cheaper, and no more "empties".

    Whenever I've purhased, they bring the container back to me with the level more-or-less precisely at the gradations marked on my container. They said the metering system on the oil dispenser is very precise.

    IMG_9469.JPG
     
    #19 Mendel Leisk, Oct 24, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
  20. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Yep that's how its done. There's a room with scientists precisely measuring oil out for future oil changes. There its sits. Till someone brings there car in.
     
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