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Range variability

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by Jean Koster, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. Jean Koster

    Jean Koster New Member

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    Half a year ago I purchased a used 2012 PIP with less than 40K miles for an attractive price. When charging at home (level 1) I got the message that the EV range is 9.1 miles which I thought is somewhat off the specs. I asked the local Toyota shop at my first maintenance about that and got the response, no worries; all good. Now a few weeks after that maintenance, over night the EV range came up as 8.8 miles. Interestingly enough I changed one day at work (level 2) and got 10.1 miles indicated. Next time it was again at 8.8 miles. What is going on? Can I expect that the 4.4 kWh battery is dying? What should I do?
     
  2. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    The phrase that pays is.............."YMMV."

    BTW....your traction battery IS dying, since it IS 5 years old now, but I wouldn't start shopping for a replacement just yet. The pip has a lithium-ion battery as opposed to the nickel-metal hydride battery found in the third generation Prius, which has a capacity of only 1.3kWh.

    There's lots of gee-whiz chemistry and fanboy debates about battery chemistries, charge rates, performance versus weight, etc.... but it's pretty clear that lithium-ion batteries are superior to the others.
    BUT(!).........aging is a concern with ALL lithium-ion batteries and some capacity deterioration is ops normal.
    The battery WILL fail after some combination of charge/discharge cycles, age, environmental insults, and abuse----like being improperly charged or discharged - something that is rare in pips.

    It should be noted that other chemistries also have age-related degenerative effects. This is especially true for nickel-metal-hydride if exposed to high ambient temperatures. At the same time, lithium-ion packs are known to have served for.....well.....over 5 years and counting for Pips.

    Expect variations in capacity to go hand-in-hand with environmental variations and also remember that the range guestimate is just that.

    Mostly?
    I'd just relax and enjoy the reliability of the pip and the fact that somebody else paid for most of the depreciation......
    You may actually harm the battery pack by trying to wring that last 100 yards of EV range out of the pack, although much developmental grunt work has been expended in thwarting your ability to do just that.

    Good Luck!
     
    #2 ETC(SS), Apr 19, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
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  3. Pluggo

    Pluggo Senior Member

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    Bear in mind that the range numbers you are reading are only provided as estimates. They are somewhat based on your driving style and previous charges, but the only number that really matters is how many EV miles you actually get on a full charge while driving in the real world. Keep the tires pumped up hard, and you may be surprised to see your actual range exceeds the estimate, maybe by a mile or more.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    congrats and welcome!
    that is unfortunate jean, it shouldn't change that much from charge to charge.
    the first thing you should do is set a base line:
    1) make sure your heat is off (low) fan off, a/c off, no 'auto', no front defrost. charge to full, run your battery down to empty (engine comes on).
    2) disconnect the 12v negative for a minute and reconnect.
    3) pick a reasonably flat route on 30-40 mph roads, fill your cold tires to 40 front and 38 rear, reset a trip meter, and drive until the engine comes on again. record the actual miles driven.
    4) do this at least once a week, and also note the estimated range on the dash after each charge.
    5) report your findings here after each test, and we'll try to help you diagnose the issue, if there is one.
    6) all the best!(y)
     
    #4 bisco, Apr 19, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
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  5. gallde

    gallde Active Member

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    Also, the estimated range will change depending on the detected static current draw (ready in park), so be sure to compare under the same conditions (lights and A/C).
     
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    good point, i think it only changes if the fan is on or off?
     
  7. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Welcome, former neighbor! We used to live in Broomfield when there were only about 4,000 people there and Louisville was a spot on the map.

    As said, the displayed range is an estimate. One factor is how you've been driving it. If my last drive was at low speed (35 or under) I'll see a lot more predicted range than if it was at 55-60 mph. Also, when I turn on the A/C or even just the vent fan at any speed or temperature, the range drops by a good 10%.

    If your EV driving has been at highway speeds with the A/C or vent running, those numbers wouldn't be bad at all. If you drive like a granny around the neighborhood with no extras running, then it looks like the battery is losing some range. If it was mine, I'd be kind of sad, but not too terribly disappointed since it is five years old.

    It may be that the previous owner had a habit of charging it in full sun and letting it bake with a full charge all day before driving it. Not a good practice. It's better, whenever you can do it, to use the timer to schedule the charge so it finishes closer to when you plan to drive it. The battery is really durable, but there's no point in abusing it.

    I like @bisco's test idea. Let us know how it works out.
     
  8. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Increasing your words per post metric I see;).
     
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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm learning to apply constructive criticism.:)
     
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  10. Jean Koster

    Jean Koster New Member

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    Thanks for the great advice. First I will measure the actual EV odo distance a few times. Then I will consider the test as suggested. It is the 8.8 reading I get after I unplug and get on the road that worries me. 8.8 is currently the normal. I noticed the weather influence. I will be back with results. Thanks a lot.
     
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  11. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Without knowing your driving speed and habits, it's not possible to know if your 8.8 is reasonable. If you use the air conditioner, accelerate hard, drive 50-60 most of the time, and stop late, that's probably pretty good.
     
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    agreed. right now, with granny driving on back roads, i'm still only getting 13-14. avg speed, 19 mph, not many lights or stop signs.