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Rear brake pads rubbing / sticking intermittently

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by lucaspiller, Jun 29, 2021.

  1. lucaspiller

    lucaspiller Junior Member

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    I've been having a problem for the past few months where the rear break pads have been rubbing / sticking intermittently. I first noticed it on the right side a few months ago, I had a metal rubbing noise on the rear right wheel which sounded the same as the issue I had last year: In that case one of the rear pads had rusted, and so was rubbing against the rotor very often. I thought it was the same issue, so went to see my neighbourhood mechanic who checked and said everything looked normal. I described the issue and we tested the brakes and e-brake and everything checked out. He took the pads off and cleaned and lubricated the calliper itself and sent me on my way. We have a lot of sand on the road in winter, so he thought it might just be something stuck there.

    A few days later I drove 20km to see a friend and when I got there the brake rotor on the right side was burning. You could feel the heat (and smell it) just standing near the car.

    A few days later I was driving to another city, and noticed the fuel consumption was quite a bit higher. It was 5.4l/100km, usually I would get more like 4.3l/100km on that sort of road with those conditions. When we got there I stopped and checked around the car, and sure enough the same thing happened. Except this time it was on the rear left side....

    The same thing has been happening intermittently for the past month. Not quite so severe, but often when I stop one side or the other feels warm if I put my hand near the rotor. The brake pads were replaced on both sides last year, and when we checked they still looked like new (I've done 8,000km since then). Last year I also had all fluids changed - inc. brake fluid. All levels are normal. I've tested the brakes in Neutral and everything feels fine with gentle braking and an emergency stop, so whatever is happening it doesn't seem to be a safety issue - when I need the brakes they work.

    So my question is what is going on? I should note the rotors and callipers probably haven't been changed ever (the car has done 204,000km) so it could just be that, but it seems strange that it doesn't happen all the time. It seems more like a fault with the brake system than the callipers. I have Techstream, is there any sort of diagnosis I can try?
     
  2. Buzzhead

    Buzzhead Non-Interference w/ devel of pre-Warp civs

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    Eliminate the mechanical causes first. The rear piston should form an X with the aligning pin going between the top arms of the x, and make sure you press on the brake to set that before you move the wheel and potentially rotate the piston.
    Also, the polished metal clips can have excess rust under them, which prevents the pads from coming off the rotor. Make sure you pop them out, clean out the channel that they sit in on the caliper mount, and replace them if they're badly corroded themselves.
     
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    ^ This. And it's a very common gotcha. You need the piston face rotated so that the cross pattern is like an X, assembled thus, with the inside pad's backing plate pin in between the raised spokes of the cross, and firmly seated thus (pump brake pedal). Hold off applying the parking brake until this is accomplished, and take a test drive.

    Then apply/release parking brake, raise rear of of vehicle, and try spinning wheels. They should spin relatively freely. If the piston has managed to rotate (with application of parking brake) the pin will likely be riding on the spoke, instead of between two of them. This will drag royally, cause bevelled pad wear, and inside face of rotor will have limitted contact with pad, will have rusty zone.

    Wheel should spin thus:

     
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  4. burebista

    burebista Active Member

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    Also maybe it worth to take a look at those slide pins. Maybe they're stuck and need some cleaning/grease?

    I've had same problem with my rear brakes. I guess it's about rust but even after I cleaned all places (including slide pins) the problem rise again after a while.
    So I went at my brother-in-law and he grind a bit of pads "ears" so now they can move a bit in place. Problem solved since then.
     
  5. lucaspiller

    lucaspiller Junior Member

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    I've read through a few more posts (Mendel it seems like you are the caliper expert here? :D) and I think the issue is probably the pins need lubricating. Every 30k miles you say? Well that definately hasn't been done :D I go back and ask the mechanic to double check the alignment and lubricate the pins and see if that helps. Might be a few weeks though, as everyone is off for summer now.

    I'll post some pictures of the rotors later.
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Not sure about that:

    Was this communicated to you by your mechanic? Might have lost something in translation? Pads don't rust to speak of, rotors will though, especially if the pad is not contacting properly:

    What will happen, if the aforementioned X-pattern of raised spokes on piston caliper is not correctly oriented (and solidly seated thus), is the pin on the back of the pad ends up riding on one of the raised spokes. This is not as it should be: instead of having uniform/level pressure on the pad, the piston's pushing just on this pin.

    Evidence of this happening: the inner face of the rotor (caliper piston side) will be half shiny and half rusty, due to the grossly unequal/skewed pressure.

    The cure:

    Assemble brakes with piston rotated properly, the X-pattern thus:

    upload_2021-7-6_8-24-52.png
    (shaded areas are the raised spokes)

    Depress brake pedal repeatedly to solidly seat everything. Reconnect 12 volt neg cable (it should be disconnected at the outset). Do NOT use the parking brake. Take car for short test drive. When you get back, apply/release parking brake several times, then raise rear of vehicle and do test spin of wheels. They should easily spin 2~3 revolutions after you let go.

    Above pic is screen-grab from the attachment:
     

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    #6 Mendel Leisk, Jul 6, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The slide pins are some of the most overdiscussed parts of Prius brake calipers, it seems for no other reason than that pretty much everybody has heard there are slide pins there, even if they've never looked at anything else about the calipers.

    Sometimes it takes a post like burebista's in #4 to remind us that there are more to the calipers than slide pins, and there are several spots that can bind up, sometimes much more severely than those overdiscussed pins.

    In particular, the 'ears' of the pads slide in the springy metal clips of the 'fitting kit', which fit into channels in the mounting bracket. The fitting-kit clips have a dry, Teflon-like coating when new, which doesn't last forever; then eventually they rust. Greasing them is not encouraged because that would just capture road grit there. The mounting bracket channels those clips fit in can corrode, which makes them narrower, and clamps down on the clips, which clamp down on the pad ears.

    Grinding down the pad ears themselves, as burebista's brother-in-law did, can get things moving again, but isn't really getting at the source of the problem. For that, sometimes it's necessary to pop out those fitting clips and file the channels in the mounting bracket back to the right size. Then might as well replace the fitting kit clips with new ones; it's probably time, and they're cheap.
     
  8. lucaspiller

    lucaspiller Junior Member

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    I spoke to the mechanic and he said he lubriates the pins whenever he does anything on the brakes, so maybe not that... I sent the picture of the diagram and he said he tries to align it, but said maybe he didn't pay enough attention. I'll go sometime and we can take a look together and take pictures to see if we can see the issue.

    I went to take pictures, then realised you can't see the inside of the rotor without taking off the calipers :D Here's what I managed to snap of the rear right (from the outside the rear left looks the same). It seems like on the outside the pads aren't wearing even, and on the inside (through the tiny gap) it looks like only a tiny part of the pad is touching the rotor?!?!

    IMG_20210706_192546.jpg


    IMG_20210706_194947.jpg

    IMG_20210706_194818.jpg

    Regarding the rusting of the old pads, the mechanic showed me and sure enough the rear right outside pad was half rusted. We replaced all of the rear pads when this happened (they were around half worn). That was a year ago, and the problems started a couple of months ago. If they were installed incorrectly then, wouldn't it have shown up sooner? (I've driven consistently around 800km per month)

    Here's a bonus pic of my 2 year old neighbours C-HR! Our parking garage is very humid so this is what happens if the rotors get wet and you don't drive for a couple of days.

    IMG_20210706_192737.jpg
     
  9. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Surface rust is normal, and not a problem.
    The one photo of the inside pad looks like it's wearing on the lower section.
    You'll have to pull the wheel off to get a better photo.
    Rear pads last a lot longer than the fronts. And it also depends on HOW you brake.
    If you are easy on the brakes, they will last a long time, even if they are installed incorrectly.
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah sounds like misaligned spoke pattern. It got ME first time I did rear brakes on mine. You can verify by wheel spin test.
     
  11. lucaspiller

    lucaspiller Junior Member

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    Great, thanks for advice! I'll post an update when I visit the mechanic with more pictures.
     
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