1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Featured Reasons behind the slowness of EVs adoption in US

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by KrPtNk, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. William Redoubt

    William Redoubt Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2016
    1,215
    1,164
    1
    Location:
    Coronado Island, California
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    NO! NO! NO! 1000 miles per hour charging! Need to go 500 miles? Got 30 minutes? You are set. Love, Elon.
     
  2. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    5,850
    4,017
    0
    Location:
    Westminster, Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Yep...and when there's a V3 charger on every street corner, you'll be 1/10th of the way to how conventional cars have worked for decades.
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,068
    15,372
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Either one is limited by the Standard Range Model 3, built-in charger, 30 A. The charge rate is limited by the built-in electronics or the circuit limit, whichever one is lower.

    What many miss is the AC voltage varies between 208 or 240 VAC. At residential 240 VAC, we get ~7.2 kW but at the commercial voltage, 208 VAC, we only get 6.6 kW. It is a subtle difference missed by many.

    BTW, the destination charger and J1773 both feed the same, built-in, charger. In the Model 3s, only the Long Range trims can handle the higher current, 38-40 A.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #143 bwilson4web, Mar 21, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,068
    15,372
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I have an appointment Wednesday, April 17.

    I also have an order pending for a Standard Range Model 3 that I've asked to get it in Brentwood, a Nashville suburb. The delivery date is on 'Elon' time.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #144 bwilson4web, Mar 21, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
    Bluegrassman likes this.
  5. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,606
    8,036
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
  6. William Redoubt

    William Redoubt Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2016
    1,215
    1,164
    1
    Location:
    Coronado Island, California
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    john1701a likes this.
  7. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    5,084
    1,782
    1
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Just did a 1200 mile road trip in my Tesla in a day and a half. Cost $30 at Superchargers. (left with about 90% and stopped at a Destination Charger overnight).
     
    austingreen likes this.
  8. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,527
    4,057
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Bob, just to correct the a tiny bit of misinformation here, The cable included with the tesla limits the charge for the model 3, the standard pack and long range limits the charge to 32 amps. This is the real limit of the internal charger in the standard, a hard wired charger will work with the long range pack and allow for 48 amps. I haven't seen any reason to go for a hard wired charger as this is fast enough, my mobile charger just hangs on hooks in my garage plugged into a dryer outlet supplying 240VAC. I can grab it for a long trip not involving supper chargers or public J1772, but I haven't seen the need yet. I haven't seen a public J1772 charger that supplied anything over 30A, most give me less than that, so it isn't really a concern for the standard pack. That 7 KW charges me as fast as I ever need to be charged other than long trips.

    I am excited about v3 superchargers which will require 1 charge on a trip to dallas or houston, I'll probably only need about 20 minutes on a round trip when they are upgraded.

    I suspect the US needs about 15,000 200 KW+ charging locations for people with chargers available at home or work to be much more convenient than gasoline stations and cars. I've stopped at gas stations twice with my car since I've owned my bev, once to go to the bathroom and buy a snack, once to wash my car. On trips where I fly and get a car, I am kind of irritated about the whole gas station experience sometimes. Being able to charge at home and at the park etc is much more convient.

    PHEVs are already more convenient than gas only cars. For many BEVs are already more convenient. I figure this hits at least 20% of the US population today and 40% in china. In 10 years if the cars improve (a model 3 type car likely will be less expensive to make and be lighter so more efficient in the city) and the infrastructure is built, these numbers will go up.

    Right now tesla can't make cars fast enough. That is really a majorly limiting factor in bevs and no one else is even close. As others step in costs will continue to fall. Toyota could really make a awd rav4 (their best selling models in the US) PHEV and really spike their sales in plug-in vehicles. They say they don't have battery capacity, but they could easily build and design it by 2023.
     
    #148 austingreen, Mar 21, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
    Zythryn likes this.
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,068
    15,372
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I have measured 40A charging a local, Long Range Model 3. But near as I can tell from the announcements, the Standard Range Model 3 has a built-in 30 A limit that is not limited by the EVSE. Regardless, I'll test mine once I get it in my hands.

    Bob Wilson
     
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,068
    15,372
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,606
    8,036
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
  12. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    4,297
    2,347
    33
    Location:
    Texas
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Why do they lump PHEVs and BEVs together?
     
  13. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    2,567
    1,595
    0
    Location:
    Somewhere in Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2013 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
    They usually don’t differentiate from new vrs used sales either so be thankful for at least that.
     
  14. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    4,297
    2,347
    33
    Location:
    Texas
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Just sounds like a way to make the numbers look more impressive. 10% WOW!
     
  15. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    6,155
    4,146
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    PHEVs typically have an electric drivetrain.
    They also always have a plug, and good sized battery pack.

    The term EV encompasses both BEVs and PHEVs as well as FCEVs.
     
  16. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    5,084
    1,782
    1
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Considering it was 0% not that many years ago, I'd say 10% is pretty impressive.
     
  17. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,747
    5,243
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    0% purchased without tax-credits is not impressive.

    Don't be fooled by only paying attention to the low-hanging fruit.
     
    Lightning Racer likes this.
  18. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    5,084
    1,782
    1
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    So you really think EV sales will totally go away once the tax credits do?
     
  19. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,747
    5,243
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Absolutes are no way to form a constructive query. We know that there will be some winners and some losers. Dependency on subsidies will confirm weaknesses. For example, today's disappointing announcement from GM (basically no plan and a small investment) seems to indicate a lack of interest. We figured something would happen as the 50% reduction approached.
     
  20. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    5,084
    1,782
    1
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Then don't allude to it.
     
    Trollbait and Zythryn like this.