Reconditioning Experience with Hybrid Automotive's Prolong System

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by biglew8, May 16, 2017.

  1. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Blocks 5,6,7,8,9 are all weak. 7 is weakest of all.

    This chart says a lot: The downward sloping lines are the voltage graphs of each block (1-14) while under load with the engine not running. Its easy to see how the ones at the bottom start rapidly dropping off a cliff and then the engine starts, which commences a battery charge. In a perfect world, with 28 perfect modules in perfect balance, all 14 lines would be directly on top of each other and would look like one line. Once the 'charge' begins, it covers up all the weak areas, as can be seen by all the lines converging.

    201859_Screenshot_20210224-203926.jpeg
     
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  2. Chba

    Chba Junior Member

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    Thank you for your support.

    here is another graph during my last test that I carried out on 03/12/2020 before "reconditioning battery with prolong deluxe charger-decharger".
    Looks like the reconditioning has improved the overall condition of my high voltage battery pack a bit.
    But you're absolutely right, blocks 5,6,7,8,9 are weak. My current budget only allows me to buy 4 blocks because I spent over $ 700 to buy the "prolong deluxe package".

    blocks 6,7,8 are "KO" I can replace them directly but I want to know which of the two blocks (5 and 9) should I replace? thanks again. Screenshot_20210225-072439.jpeg Screenshot_20210225-072444.jpeg Screenshot_20210225-072507.jpeg

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  3. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Keep in mind that each block consists of 2 individual modules. 14 blocks = 28 modules in the HV battery. Quite often, a weak block has only one weak module and the other module is fine. This is one of the major disadvantages of a grid charging system. it doesn't provide you with information about individual modules to allow you to make an 'informed' decision about which modules are the true weak ones.

    The test you performed with the app can get you to the block number, but to get more detailed you would need to test each module individually.

    Additional cycles with the prolong may be able to improve the battery enough that you don't need to replace anything. Has the car been throwing battery codes?
     
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  4. Chba

    Chba Junior Member

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    No, the batteries have not yet sent fault codes.
    Here is a new test that I performed again this morning on my way to work.
    I am a little disappointed with these results despite all the time spent reconditioning the hv battery. Screenshot_20210225-150125.jpeg Screenshot_20210225-150130.jpeg Screenshot_20210225-150139.jpeg

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  5. alftoy

    alftoy Member

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    Looks like I'll be continuing my $75 DIY prolong style charger build.

    $700 that could've been put towards a new battery. Also $200 to replace 4 blocks or modules.

    That Deluxe Prolong package would be close to $1000cdn in Canada, new OEM HV pack is $2300 in Canada
     
    #1265 alftoy, Feb 25, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  6. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    check with @2k1Toaster at newpriusbatteries to see if they can ship the kit of new cells to Canada. It may be cheaper than OEM
     
  7. Chba

    Chba Junior Member

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    I replaced 8 modules bought on eBay. then I did a charge / discharge cycle at 134 Volts.
    And a "final charge and balancing during 27hours". I waited 1 hour before starting the car.
    But I received a PA080 fault code, which indicates that of the 8 modules purchased on eBay 2 are very weak compared to the other modules. This is block # 7 representing modules # 13 and # 14.

    However, the ebayer indicates on the invoice that these two modules have a capacity greater than 6000mAh. Which is false according to the test. I am confused because this is the first time I have received a fault code.
    I need your help please Screenshot_20210303-112816.jpeg Screenshot_20210303-110015_Prius%20Doctor.jpeg Screenshot_20210303-105353_Torque.jpeg Screenshot_20210303-102535_Dr%20Prius.jpeg 20210228_102322.jpeg 20210227_215248.jpeg 20210303_090245.jpeg 20210227_193446.jpeg 20210227_215242.jpeg 20210228_102314.jpeg 20210228_102318.jpeg

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  8. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Active Member

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    One of the modules in block 7 appears to have failed. The block voltage is about 1.2V less, indicating that a cell in a module has shorted. I assume that it happened during the prolong cycle.

    All you can do now is replace it again. You can take voltage readings of the modules to identify the bad one, confirm the serial number and see what the ebay seller will do for warranty.

    There is a very small chance that the problem could be a poor connection or corrosion for the voltage sense wires at the modules or the battery ecu. The 1.2V difference is almost always a bad cell. Direct voltage measurements would confirm this.

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    #1268 mr_guy_mann, Mar 3, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
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  9. Chba

    Chba Junior Member

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    What do you mean by direct voltage measurement?

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  10. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Replacing 8 modules is not a great idea.

    Genwrally one or two at most.
    Every time you put in a different module you are addi g more chaos and variability to the mix.

    It may be time to consider purchasing a New pack from Toyota parts department.

    I suppose you could try to force the modules to try to a t the same by doing a charge/discharge/charge cycle every 3 weeks or so. Bit that seems like a kinda bad idea long term.

    Go back and check the crimp terminals on every single voltage sensing wire.
    Be sure to remove the far end of the negative lead and check the terminal u see that one as well.

    Check the orange plug at the computer to make sure there is not corrosion I side the connector or on the computer pins.

    You could move the supposedly bad module to a different position in the pack to see if problem follows the module.

    If problem doesn't follow the module then it is something with the connection at that location.

    I'd be happy to talk via WhatsApp if you want to bounce around some ideas.

    My number is 608-729-4082
     
  11. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    My take would be, disconnect the sense harness and bus bar(s) to isolate the module(s) in question, then check the voltage directly.

    Hopefully @mr_guy_mann can expound on this.
     
  12. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Active Member

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    Umm, use the multimeter to take voltage measurements directly on the battery module studs.

    Any scantool or app uses the voltage sense harness and the HV battery ecu to report voltage of blocks. You could have a problem with the harness, the ecu, or a connection giving you incorrect readings. Measurements directly at the modules would confirm that data (or not). As I stated before, it's very unlikely that such a fault would result in a reading that happens to match the failure pattern of a shorted cell in a module, but it could happen. Doesn't hurt to confirm that your data is correct.

    Plus if a module is bad, then you might want to know which one of the two in that block is the problem.
     
  13. Chba

    Chba Junior Member

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    thank you for your reply, I replaced the weak module with another one, I also tried to rearrange all modules in blocks. I have assembled the weakest to the strongest and the weak to the strong. This is to avoid a "high V delta". Currently I have connected the "Prolong" charger since yesterday to balance all cells. My question is: in direct voltage measurement, should I switch off the "Prolong" charger or can I take the measurements with the charger connected?

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  14. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Your profile says NY
    33 degrees Celsius or 33 degrees Fahrenheit ?

    translate.google.com french
    Votre profil indique NY
    33 degrés Celsius ou 33 degrés Fahrenheit?
     
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  15. Chba

    Chba Junior Member

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    I replaced 7 modules, and here is the result fault code P0A80: voltage imbalance caused by 4 blocks.

    However, I had mixed the new modules with the old ones in order to minimize the Delta.
    I am in disarray and do not know what to do.
    Do you think reconditioning will solve the problem? or do I still have to replace other modules? If yes, which ones? Here are the photos. Best regard Screenshot_20210307-182157.jpeg Screenshot_20210307-182209.jpeg Screenshot_20210307-182214.jpeg Screenshot_20210307-155204.jpeg

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  16. Bunce

    Bunce Active Member

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    It's about time to do another recondition for my Red Prius. What's the latest opinions on the number of discharges and to what voltage levels for a 260k car?
     
  17. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Spend $1600 on the kit of new cells and sell your old modules to offset the cost.
     
  18. Chba

    Chba Junior Member

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    After replacing 7 new modules, I am in the process of reconditioning my high voltage battery pack of my prius gen3.
    At the end of the first discharge, ie at 134V, I measured the individual voltage for each module.

    Here is the table of measurement results attached:
    -In yellow, the seven new modules each have a constant voltage.
    -In red, the old modules with voltages below 4.8V. There is even one which is at 2.24V.

    My question is: Is there no risk of going down again to 101V then to 84V? (if we already see that some modules exceeded the threshold of 4.8V).

    Second question: Do you think "reconditioning with Prolong Deluxe HA" will solve the weak cell problem here? If so, how many cycles should I do for my case?

    Third question: what module pair combination should I do to ensure high voltage battery balance?

    Fourth question: If I still need to replace cells which do you recommend?

    Your answer will be precious to me. Cordially.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    3x charge/discharge followed by a final charge. !st discharge to 134V; 2nd discharge to 101V; final discharge to 84V.
     
  20. Bunce

    Bunce Active Member

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    The 84v discharge was being debated last I looked into it a little over a year ago. Was the conclusion that 84v is still ok on a tired old battery of 260k miles?
     
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