Red bullet VVTI seloniod

Discussion in 'Prius c Accessories and Modifications' started by Max Taiwan, Apr 9, 2019.

  1. Max Taiwan

    Max Taiwan Active Member

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    Hi CSuirp,

    How are you! I hope the test to compare them side by side helps and to let future owners like to experience something that is so interesting yet so simple to achieve .
    I read Leadfoot list of how to test the reaction speed, let me see what I can do. Now that my exam is over I'll be full time helping owners again.

    Look forwards to hearing from you! I'll update the next entry as soon as it becomes available.
     
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  2. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    So you are saying this device improves fuel mileage, a lot?
     
  3. CSuirp

    CSuirp Member

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    Hi Dogman. "A lot" is subjective, but, I have increased my mpg by approx. 10 just by installing the device in my 2014 Prius C (ie...was getting 50-52mps with OEM, the Red Bullet is getting me 61-63mpg). I get more than 10 depending on how I drive and the conditions, but for me +10 default has been what I'm seeing (and that's on 50% side road, 50% highway use). Power is increased slightly too, which is noticeable on highway mostly...but really whenever the ICE kicks in, but I find the slight power increase on highway most. If i'm not mistaken, the Red Bullet has faster mechanics built into the device as opposed to the OEM version, and this increases the response time of the cam actuator when oil pressure is pumped through the Bullet, which is in response to driver's pedal for more power. Max Taiwan can explain in greater detail the mechanics of it all if needed. Hope this helps!
     
  4. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    10mpg is good, no matter what mileage you were getting. :)
    Any programing to do? Or do you just pull the OEM one out and put this in?
    What warranty does it have? What does it cost and where are they sold?
     
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  5. Max Taiwan

    Max Taiwan Active Member

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    Hi ASRDogman,

    There will be no modification needed nor programming required. Just replace, plug and play and flip your car into normal mode. If you are gong to be in heavy congestion or in the city blasting air condition then to avoid static run of the internal combustion engine going ECO mode might help. But when you leave the environment mentioned above then go back to normal.

    The Red Bullet carries a one year manufacture warranty straight from the factory.

    I hope this answers most your question.
     
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  6. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    What live testing have you done to make sure there is no additional stress on the vehicles OEM components?
     
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  7. Max Taiwan

    Max Taiwan Active Member

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    The manufacture torture tested the solenoid in Taiwan on commercial vehicle "Taxi".
    First I would like to just mentione about the different ways of operation compared to other taxis in USA and Europe.
    Taiwan taxis is always running, the engine hardly stops turning when the driver is within the vehicle, it is too hot to stay in a vehicle without air conditioning. Even at a taxi stop the engines are running at idle for the entire time. Some also don't stay in taxi stops and just coast the street looking for customers. We are in a very high density location so instead of waiting for a radio call or in line at a taxi stop, one will have better chances with a pedestrian waving him down instead, kind of like New York. During lunch break which is around 1-2pm for taxi drivers, they take a nap in there vehicles to get ready for the evening rush. During that hour for 52 weeks of 5 days a week they will be idling the car for the hour just so they won't cook in there. Technically its illegal to do that but the government had to let it slide, otherwise you will have a riot of taxi drivers. The law which applies to regular motorist is no more then 2 minutes idling, but with heat in the summer, it was very hard to reinforce. It is also very humid in Taiwan and most people can't live without the air condition as a condenser to dry up the air, it is very uncomfortable when your sudoriferous and sebaceous glands are not able to excrete because of the external humidity, so i topically see my friends and family wearing thick jackets and running the air conditioning even in winter just for the humidity.
    Many times it was even warmer outside the car in winter months.

    A regular taxi driver can put on sixty to eighty thousands km in one year plus at least 260 hours of idle on a mid day nap basis. Factor in the other idle time and coast time, it adds up to a very significant engine torture testing cocktail. And lastly a engine at idle running air conditioning and sitting without ventilation for hours is going to be hot!

    So as for real-life testing goes the manfacture installed the solenoid and sent the taxi on its way. Two years and 120,000km later they recited the solenoid and it was still in great shape. This was in the year 2016 to 2018. Till this day if you do not get a CEL when you install the Red Bullet, you will see good and long service life of the Red Bullet in your vehicle for years to come even if you drive 60k in a year, you are still under our warranty!

    Thank you for directing your question regarding the Red Bullet here, much appreciated!
     
    #387 Max Taiwan, Jul 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
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  8. CSuirp

    CSuirp Member

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    Great info Max and great question Orenji. It's always vital to hear how a replacement upgraded part does under real life conditions and passes. Here in the NE of the states, we have humidity and heat but I have to say, I think Taiwan has us beat with that. lol.
     
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  9. Max Taiwan

    Max Taiwan Active Member

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    I really cant wrap my head around winter months here, still getting use to the fact it will be freezing in the car and buses just because of the humidity. When I drive I suck it up for the transition and wait for the heater to kick in and burn off the moisture. My friends and family just couldn't because they are also not use to the idea of taking off there jackets before getting into the car. I lived in Poland for 2 years, we use to have a overcoat on our jacket for the harsh winters, it was very difficult to drive with the overcoat and after 5 min on the road it gets really hot and uncomfortable. I made it a practice to drive without a jacket or extra clothing which you set up the mirrors to be at, it also has safety reasons too! Driving with extra clothing wll change your original mirror views and risk causing a blind-spot accident.
     
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  10. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    I think your misunderstanding my question. Since the solenoid is increasing power, and torque which will be transferred to the engine, transmission, axels and other high stress areas of the vehicle. What tests have been done to show that these items are not wearing any differently then with the OEM solenoid? Your test with one Taxi without a tear down seems to not really provide any real data to support how it may impact reliability of the vehicle long term. Your answer seems to be focused on the long term reliability of the Red Bullet only.
     
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  11. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Thanks, you did answer some of my questions.
    What does it cost and where are they sold?
    I run my Pruis in "eco" mode. Would I have to turn it off of that?

    Also, in the Pruis, the engine does not always run. At idle it shuts down most of the time.
    Unless you were talking about a non hybrid car?
     
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  12. Max Taiwan

    Max Taiwan Active Member

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    Yes orenji, I think I've over shot on the obvious concern in your question. My apologise!

    The taxi which came back after two years of use had no issues with the Red Bullet and also showed no abnormal wear to its transmission and especially the engine, regular maintenance were kept and no abnormalities developed associated with the Red Bullet. Let me explain why that is with the following info.

    The gain from the Red Bullet solenoid isnt a power gaining turbo or increasing the compression pressure or manipulating fuel injection out of factory specs. It is there to improve on what The OEM solenoid lacks in design. The concern of long term mechanical parts damages by exceeding the original designed stress parameters do not apply here as compared to a turbo or flashing the ECU. The Red Bullet wont give you a turbo boost or make your engine run leaner and hotter, the end results on down stream part wear will not differ that much or if any from the OEM in regards to transmission or other ball joints and parts within the engine any differently.

    The reason that the Red Bullet can achieve the "efficancy" increase is by letting the valves on the engine react more efficiently to the control of the ECU.

    To put it in perspective, the way a individual services and drives his or her vehicle will have more influential effect on longivity then the Red Bullet could, due to we don't gain power or torque by changing the pressure or air fuel mixture out of factory specs, what the Red Bullet does is bring the real life condition closer to what the car manufacture intended to in regards to valve timing.
    By giving your valves a better chance to keep up with the engine demands, you can reduce the unwanted cold start vibration, start the engine with less internal stress by getting the valves into position more efficiently, reduce carbon deposit by achieving optimal burn which this is where your efficancy translate to power and torque, more consistantly running engine with less deposit and knocks will reduce the stress down stream for transmission and mechanical parts to withstand. By having a smoother efficient engine all help longevity, because vibration and shock is the cause of mechanical part wear. Today in your peppier engine with the Red Bullet mod you decided to start driving harder, corner harder, break harder or pull more load. Than obviously that will increase the rate of wear on your entire car, I do not think that should be related to or say it was caused by the Red Bullet directly but I do see the fun factor behind it being the reason why one would go down that road!

    If a driver will push the vehicle past tolerances outside the manufacture intended zone, like adding turbo, remapping your ECU and fuel injectors, or just literally flooring the vehicle at every green light. We do not believe once you do that to your vehicle you will consider the Red Bullet to be the reason why your engine and transmission do not last as long as a regular daily driver. That will be accounted as excessive wear and not at the responsibility of any manufacture or producer or anyone but the driver.

    Let me give a bit of a example, a OEM vehicle can toll 5000lb of cargo and if you follow the limit and slip a differential within the warranty period, the manufacture will asses the situation and most probably give you a replacement diff. Today you installed the Red Bullet and feel like you have more pull because your engine is running so much better from the gained efficiency, you decided to toll your larger boat of 5500lb and slipped a diff while driving, lost control and could not stop in time because of the extra weight by going 20 times to the lake this year on your brand new pickup. Nor the manufacture or the insurance company will be responsible I think. I know it is a extreme case to be pulling a example from.

    The takeaway point is; the Red Bullet solenoid is not doing things outside of the manufactures parameters, what we are doing is try to bring the real life conditions closer to what the car manufacture intended to do when they designed the system.
    I am done editing this post. For the record it took me 4 or 5 times to get it all in.
    Please let me know if I missed a spot or if there are question you would like to ask, I am here to answer them to the best of my abilities!
     
    #392 Max Taiwan, Jul 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
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  13. Max Taiwan

    Max Taiwan Active Member

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    Hi thank you for the follow up question!
    The fact that our engines dont run in idle that much is actually a plus for the Red Bullet to show what it can do, it means when your engine starts it will need to adjust the valves within a very short time to meet your ECU desired position. You might be going from electric drive jumping right into ICE to overtake, instead of your valves playing catchup to what your engine want to have, you can be sure to get there faster and hunt in a faster rate for optimum burn with the Red Bullet then with the slower OEM.
     
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  14. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    What car did you test this on? Not a Prius, because you said the engine runs ALL the time.
    At least the taxi's don't use the Prius, according to your description anyways.
     
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  15. Max Taiwan

    Max Taiwan Active Member

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    You are totally right, the taxi in Taiwan do not all run Prius but they are slowly switching to Prius V(called Alpha here) and also the Rav4 Hybrid.

    The test subject was a Toyota Altis 1.8 L engine, it was running the same solenoid number what is on the Prius Gen 3 right now the exact same part. The Altis even has exhaust VVT-i capability. Toyota put the same part in a lot of different engines we figure for cost reasons. Just a good example, the Lexus CT200h also runs the identical part with the Prius Gen 3, Gen 4, Prius V and Prius PHV the list goes on and on. IS200T, IS250, IS300, IS350....
    The Prius Gen 2 was with a totally different engine, one you would find on a Yaris or a Vios, we help owners with them too!

    The manufacture wanted to get the most hours and use for the torture test of the solenoid.
    A continuously running taxi with a lot of idle time and drive time was the best candidate for a torture test. If you had added all the hours together on that Taxi, it will surpass many lifetimes that regular cars will see.
    The stock number 15330-37010 is the Toyota stock number for the Prius Gen 3, if you google it up you will find years and models of vehicles along the same part number.

    Because of the different location of the engine cover between different Prius models, the Red Bullet has a little bit of a tight squeeze on the Gen 3. We have spoken to the manufacture about the situation and for getting the best for Gen 3 owners we have custom designed the Red Bullet to clear the cover so that no one will need to trim or cut off something that does not grow back.
    We also looking for ways to help existing owners of Gen 3 clear the problem at hand with promising results.

    I hope this answers your question about the torture test.
    I look forward to additional question and discussions!
     
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  16. ice9

    ice9 Member

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    Based on that, and your earlier statements, I would think that the likelihood of any significant increase in engine wear or increased degradation in performance over time would probably be low... ...but you never know. And the one year warranty, bothers me. Why isn't it base on mileage?

    Another thing is how does the product effect emissions? Once installed, will the vehicle pass state inspection? I don't expect this would be a problem, but it's probably worth checking.
     
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  17. Max Taiwan

    Max Taiwan Active Member

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    Hi ice9,

    Thank you for bringing up the one year warranty, I can say it is a industry standard for even a OEM solenoid.
    Please see link> Standard OEM Toyota Parts Warranty | Olathe Toyota Parts Center
    They did not limit the warranty to mileage and neither did we or the manufacture.

    You are right about the passing part. The Red Bullet will not be a problem in emissions test or get you into problems with such outstanding parameters, like mentioned above it will be able to keep up with your ECU better then the OEM, reduce hesitation, smoother start including cold starts, wasting less gas as much have demonstrated and making your variable valves run more efficiently, these all point to green just as the manufacture designed it to be, plus a more efficient system will most probably pass the emissions test with better scores then failing it right?
    The above are just logic talk, so from the cars which use the Red Bullet here in Taiwan, they have not failed any emissions test due to the solenoid. We have our vehicles tested once a year and no reports of the solenoid here failing tests.Why would they? only a failed solenoid will potentially do that and make a lot of pollution.
     
    #397 Max Taiwan, Jul 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
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  18. ice9

    ice9 Member

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    ...not to mention that you can always replace it and reinstall an OEM valve if necessary. However, for those who are not mechanics, I guess the main concern specific to warranty is not about getting your money back, but rather whether or not a failure could result in costly repairs. A guarantee that the product would last, say, at least 50,000 miles would give us at least some confidence. And if it did fail, what would be the first symptoms? Whether we admit it, some of us really DO depend on idiot lights.
     
    #398 ice9, Jul 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
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  19. Max Taiwan

    Max Taiwan Active Member

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    I can answer that!
    It was something I did by mistake when I first installed my upgrade solenoid. It was not called the Red Bullet back then!
    I was excited to install like anyone else. So I first undo the connector and started at loosening the 10mm bolt. my tool didn't fit for some odd reason, I think it kept slipping off, cheap dollar store open wrench.
    So I closed the hood and drove to the nearest hardware store to buy a proper 10mm wrench!
    Paid for the wrench and jumped back into the car and headed towards my original location near a quiet park.
    Got out of the car and popped the hood ready to unplug the connector and work on that stubborn 10mm bolt and!
    Guess what! I am still a bit embarrassed about this till this day when I tell people...
    I realized Mr. Max went on a drive to pick up the wrench for the job without plugging the connector back.
    I did not even notice it was not there or felt anything during the drive, not even a warning on the dash...
    We did have ones that failed in the early versions long time ago before my time around 2016 the first batch. Rough idle and sluggish run just like how a OEM fail would feel like if it failed. And they usually fail on startup just after you install it, the CEL will come on.
    Hope that helps!
     
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  20. ice9

    ice9 Member

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    Yep. Thanx!
     
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