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Red Triangle, orange emblem, (!), and CEL issue on 2008

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by knettle3, Oct 28, 2017.

  1. knettle3

    knettle3 Junior Member

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    While passing in the left lane on the interstate at about 70 mph, the red triangle, CEL, (!), and the orange car emblem on the touch screen all came on and the car lost power for several seconds, I was able to exit the interstate almost immediately and pulled over at a circle K. Turned off the car for as long as it took me to look under the hood for any obvious leaks or odors. The temp is in the mid-forties, and the inverter and engine were lukewarm to the touch. Powered the car back up and the red triangle, CEL, and orange emblem were still on. I cautiously drove the remainder of the way home, stopping twice to check under the hood for overheating or leaks. Both times I powered the car off and back on, with the same lights remaining on. The entire time (about 12 miles) the car ran fine, the energy flow looked normal, and no strange noises. Got to the house, powered the car off and connected my scanner, powered car back on, and no more trouble lights! No codes were stored and everything seems "WNL".. I did have the accelerator pedal floored when the car lost power and dash lit up like a Christmas tree. The scanner is in the glove box in case it happens again. Any ideas from any of you good people? The car has 217,000 miles; completed repaiirs include NGK plugs, ICE water pump at 198,000 (preemptively), inverter pump done at 82,000 miles because of recall, 2 of the computers replaced on recall after car died in Shreveport 3 years ago, and cat w/ resonator changed last year for P0420. I also replaced 12V battery with an Optima yellow top. I use synthetic oil and keep the routine maintenance up religiously, including the transmission oil in transaxle being changed twice.. Thank you for any information that would shed some light. I suspect the inverter pump or MAF sensor, but without any stored codes to go by, it's guesswork at best.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    maybe stressed the hybrid battery. you may need tech stream to retrieve the code.
     
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  3. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    What scanner are you using?
    Can it display Hybrid Battery error codes?

    You may be able to recreate the codes by stressing the battery through a series of tests.

    Is your scanner able to display live data so you can watch the HV battery block voltages live?
     
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  4. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    Your code reader is junk, donate it too Goodwill.

    You are doing yourself a disservice using it with your Prius. "Universal" OBD2 readers can NOT read ALL the codes, many times misread codes, and very limited in what it can do on the Prius.

    Buy mini VCI ($20-30) from Amazon; usu bundled with a hacked copy of Techstream. Hacked software is also available online. Techstream software is the only way to go, if you want to read ALL of the codes on the Prius; you will now have dealer level diagnostic capabilities. The latest software version will be required for the latest (newest 2018 model year) Toyota. Toyota = Toyota, Lexus, Scion, Daihatsu (JDM); anything made by Toyota, you can read. One code reading trip to the dealer is usu a minimum of $100+; investment in mini VCI is well worth it.

    Easiest to install onto an obsolete 32bit Windows laptop (XP, 7), as a precaution against any malware the hacked Techstream software might have. Mac installation possible, just search for this. Ask co-workers/friends/family if they know anyone in IT (Information Technology). These people will likely have access to obsolete 32bit Window laptops just sitting around, or they will know someone who will likely have a spare collecting dust.

    All the mini VCI cables on Amazon, crapBay (eBay), will likely come from the same one or two suppliers in China. It really doesn't matter who you buy from. B/C these are knock off cables, there is no quality control; some cables will work, some will work intermittently due to a bad pin. Ultimately, luck of the draw.
     
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  5. knettle3

    knettle3 Junior Member

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    Exstudent- You r right; the code reader is the best one from Harbor Freight (Centech). I believe I paid $ 105 on sale prior to buying the Prius. It can display and reset the codes for the ABS and OBD- 2 and earlier but does not have the capability to display hybrid battery information live. It was instrumental in diagnosing the P0420 code (cat vs F/A sensor vs downstream O2 sensor). I have been on Amazon and there are several mini-VCI units available, but getting my hands on a laptop with windows XP has proven more difficult. There was one unit on Amazon that claimed compatibility with windows 10, but it was out of stock I will (reluctantly) check Craig's list for the elusive XP machine. I checked several pawn shops and they told me that they don't buy obsolete machines, and all three shops in this area only had 64 bit machines only a year or two old and all running 8, 8.1 or 10.

    I just drove the car for about 25 miles under a variety of conditions, and no problems today; the CEL and red triangle remain off.

    I will add to this thread as this unfolds, for I am fairly certain that something is getting ready to rear it's ugly head. Thank you to all who have taken the time to respond. I have resolved most of my issues because of all of your posts and specific feedback. I will be back soon..:)
     
    #5 knettle3, Oct 29, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
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  6. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    How about just getting an Elm 327 OBDII Bluetooth device, torque pro app. Cost all of $40.

    Then you an see block voltage data live plus more.
     
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  7. knettle3

    knettle3 Junior Member

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    Update: I just updated my code scanner and there IS a code stored in (what I assume to be) the PCM; the other 2 modules have no codes.

    POA90--Drive Motor "A" Performance

    There is a freeze frame associated with this code with approx. 15 different readings. I will post the info after I take a couple of pics with the readings.
     
  8. knettle3

    knettle3 Junior Member

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    I updated the scanner and pulled this code:

    POA90-- Drive Motor A Performance
     
  9. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    For a complete diagnosis, you’ll the three digit INF codes which will help pinpoint the cause.

    Pull and post them when you can(y).
     
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  10. knettle3

    knettle3 Junior Member

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    Does 7EA ring a bell?
     
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  11. knettle3

    knettle3 Junior Member

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    IMG_6118.JPG IMG_6119.JPG IMG_6120.JPG IMG_6121.JPG IMG_6118.JPG

    I also scanned the ABS system and found this code:

    C1241--Low battery or high battery positive voltage. When this happened, the battery indicator was 2 bars from the top.

    Many thanks to all who have responded. So should I just clear the codes and pray that it was some kind of hiccup (for lack of a better word LOL)?
     
  12. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Usually it is 3 numbers, like 526, etc.
     
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  13. knettle3

    knettle3 Junior Member

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    Raytheeagle, I have my Hayes manual and I now see exactly what you are talking about; There are 10 different subcodes under P0A90. I'm gonna work on getting techstream access via mini VCI on laptop or an app for my iPhone.

    ABS had a stored code: C1241.
     
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  14. knettle3

    knettle3 Junior Member

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    My biggest question at this point:

    Even though the red triangle, CEL, ( ! ), and orange emblem stayed on on my trip home last night (approx. 12 miles from the house), the car suddenly "resolved" whatever caused the lights to come on in the first place; I arrived home with the dash lit up, parked, turned the power off, went inside to get scanner and returned to the car, then plugged it in. This took 2-3 minutes. Powered up the car, and no more Christmas tree. What would cause the CEL and red triangle to be turned off by the system if there was an ongoing problem? I drove approx. 23 miles under various conditions this morning, including highway speeds of 70-75 MPH and city speeds of 30-40 MPH, and the lights have remained off and the car is driving perfectly. I should mention that we are having our first cold snap down here in Louisiana- starting yesterday. This is the only change to the usual driving conditions beginning with last night.
     
  15. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Depends on whether the condition is still active/present.

    If it is an intermittent thing, the code may light when the condition is momentarily present.
    If that condition doesn't show up again, the light may go off.

    Don't fool yourself into thinking the OBDII fairies have magically fixed things for you: They haven't.
    The light will likely return, and you get the fun of trying to figure things out.

    I have seen this with failing inverters.
    I have also seen this with failing transaxles.
    As well as other intermittent problems.
     
  16. knettle3

    knettle3 Junior Member

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    Ericbecky-- Thanks for your opinion. I love the comment about the OBD-II fairies, because I sure hope that it was some little hiccup associated with my heavy foot and the cold snap. Does anyone know what this C1241 (low or high battery positive voltage) could signify? This code wasn't on the 3 modules, but showed up when I scanned the ABS system. I'm almost tempted to clear the codes and see what happens while I work on getting Techstream access via a mini-VCI. I just drove to Walmart and back and lights remain off.
     
  17. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    It means the ABS/VSC/TRAC ECU detected a low (or less likely high) voltage on the B+. Look a the freeze frame data and look for the 12 V battery values. You will most likely find that these voltages will report < 10.5 V.

    The most likely culprit will be a 12 V battery that is on its last legs. I foresee that you will need to replace it in the near future. If you have a battery charger, you can charge the 12 V battery then test it the next day to see if it is holding a charge. If the open voltage drops from ~13.0 V to below 12.4 over night with no load, then you can be fairly sure you need to replace the battery.

    If the battery does prove to be performing poorly, replace it ASAP, before doing any further testing. A bad 12 V battery has been known to create havoc when trying to troubleshoot problems on the Prius.
     
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  18. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Regarding Mini VCI, if you decide to use a laptop which has an operating system newer than Windows 7, 32 bit OS, then buy the Windows 7 32 bit OS separately, and install that on the laptop. That is certainly cheap enough - see attached screenshot for one example.

    I agree that DTC 1241 points towards inadequate battery voltage from the 12V battery. Measure the voltage across the battery when the car is IG-OFF, first thing in the morning before it is driven, and see what it is.

    DTC P0A90 points towards a failure which most likely is in the transaxle. The fault apparently is intermittent. If you can retrieve the three-digit subcode that may narrow down the problem further.
     

    Attached Files:

    #18 Patrick Wong, Oct 29, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
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  19. knettle3

    knettle3 Junior Member

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    Patrick.... Regarding the Windows 7 OS, my laptop is a 64 bit running windows 10. Is it possible to partition the HD to install Windows 7 32 bit on a 64 bit machine (downgrade)? Or would an external HD be more appropriate? I already have a WD 1 TB external that I use for backups and its got plenty of space. I will check youTube right quick to see if there are any vids posted regarding the second OS. Thanks for this info.- this is the route I would like to go.

    About the DTC 1241.... Freeze frame data shows the 12V system at 13.671V; the battery is an Optima Yellow top that's 9 months old. Voltage a few minutes ago was 12.8V using digital voltmeter at the jump terminal in front.
     
  20. knettle3

    knettle3 Junior Member

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    About the DTC 1241.... Freeze frame data shows the 12V system at 13.671V; the battery is an Optima Yellow top that's 9 months old. Voltage a few minutes ago was 12.9V using digital voltmeter at the jump terminal in front. The prior battery was losing voltage, not holding a charge, and was giving me the red triangle on start-up.