Redesigned 2013 Honda Accord will include Plug-In Hybrid version. PHV available winter 2012

Does this use Honda's ancient assist type tech? The only hybrid honda has made worth anything was the original Insight. I find it interesting that the article here doesn't mention MPG. It's clear that Honda needs to move away from integrated motor assist if they want to be taken seriously against the competition.

 

I have not seen the layout, and would appreciate it if someone has and can give us details. It has 2 motors, so one may be in assist type tech, but the other must be driving the wheels making it their first full hybrid.

 

Honda has said this is a new design and not another IMA. I know of no further details. I'm willing to give good odds this is another e-cvt implementation -- the e-cvt is just too superior over anything else on the horizon when an electric/ICE hybrid drivetrain is built.

 

Ford used to purchase hybrid components from Toyota owned companies (PSD was from Aisin)... this is apparently their own stuff now, so I would say that Honda probably has more experience than them.

not that i doubt ford... but there is an difference in designing and building your own stuff while buying others.

 

There are drain heat exchangers that preheat the supply water. They might be against code in residential homes. I don't think the lost recovered will be enough to heat the engine block in a worthwhile fashion.

Using a Toyota supplier doesn't mean they used a Toyota design. Ford did design the part. Their hybrid drive train layout and m/g placement is different than Toyota's.

The auto makers regularly farm out part production, and not just for little things like window switches. While Toyota does have a big stake in it, Aisin is its own company. Might has well say Toyota has no experience building PSDs.

 

I assume the PHV Accord will look like the conventional, but cost $14,000+ more. So, what are most people going to buy? ..

the conventional Accord.

 

This is from their site and should be just about all they're showing for PHV.

Honda Plug-in Hybrid Concept - Official Site

 

IMA uses mechanical CVT. This one sounds like HSD but it also has a direct drive mode.

 

it is aisin transmission, designed by aisin... aisin is owned by toyota and is part of Toyota conglamorate of companies.

they also used panasonic and sanyo batteries, now they are build them themselves.

big difference there.

 

Only 30%. That's like saying FHI is also part of the Toyota conglomerate, which it isn't.

 

Toyota owns 52% of Aisin AW. Both ford and toyota have had supply chain issues with them. Toyota moved the psd manufacturing in house with the Gen III prius. Ford is moving it inhouse with the c-max and fusion. The design of this component is rather straight forward. The design has not changed greatly since 2004, but requires the use of patents toyota and ford own. It is a matter of materials and tolerances, no real proprietary high end design went into this one component. Ford designed the component for the current fusion hybrid. I believe Aisin/Ford designed the first escape psd together. It is often cheaper to uses outside suppliers than to build in house, but aisin did not follow the changes in demand well, so using them cost ford and toyota money.

Here toyota really does exercise a great deal of control over PEV, and with the purchase of Sanyo took over the only other player in nimh automotive batteries. This makes the price and possibility of supply disruption from buying from PEV a bad choice for anyone but toyota. Most of the industry also feels that nimh are technically inferior to LIon. Ford is manufacturing battery cells into battery packs and can buy cells from the best in the industry. They currently can switch between the best suppliers of cells. In some vehicles they use JCI-saft (used in BMW and Mercedes) and some they use LG chem (used in Hyundai and volt). I do not know what is in the first Fusion hybrid or c-max hybrid or the energis. Vertical integration can make you move slower to better technology, which is one of the reasons of gm downfall. [/QUOTE]

Both toyota and ford have much experience with the important other design considerations of hybrids - engine sizing, software management though multiple generations of cars and SUVs. The last generation of camry hybrid - fusion hybrid had different trade offs, but the automagazines picked the fusion as the better midsized hybrid. The new fusion bests the new camry in mpg 47/44 versus 43/39, but people need to drive them to see what is better in the real world. Honda does not have this track record with its insight and civic hybrid performing worse. It does have good engineers and can look at toyota, ford, hyundai, and gm designs. Your idea that aisin is the design advantage of the toyota hsd is not correct. Nor is your contention that honda's years of work with the insight puts them ahead of ford in a blended phev.

 

austin i dont know what are you arguing - Ford used to buy off the shelf components.
Honda designed their components.

Thus Honda has more experience. Not to mention that Honda actually produced hybrids in larger quantities. For all their hype, Ford has not sold many hybrids.

rest is just not important

 

Honda's hybrids were nothing more than an electric motor sandwiched between an off the shelf transmission and engine until this new Accord was announced. So where the batteries.

I hope Honda has gotten the hang battery management down for this new hybrid.

 

I'm not arguing, you are, I was just explaining If the aisin parts were off the shelf, then there wouldn't be supply problems Do you think the company that built the model t can't build a planetary gear with housings for motors?

Yep, honda has more bad experience belt cvt and poor battery management along with poor engine/motor sizing in the previous accord hybrid. They do get the advantage of clean sheeting their phev with the best modern technology, and they have good engineers. I hope they do a great job. hyundai put out their first hybrid in 2011, and it was a great first generation. It greatly outsold the fusion and camry hybrids, as well as selling more hundai sonata hybrids in the first year than honda sold original insights over the cars lifetime. Much of this had to do with price and availability. The fusion and camry hybrids are more refined, and I expect the fusion energi to be more refined than the accord phev. If honda does a good job and prices it right they may get more sales. The problem with the previous accord hybrid wasn't just it got bad city mileage compared to the camry hybrid, it was that it cost too much

 

Here is a test drive of Honda's upcoming Accord Plug-in by Brad @ PluginCars.

First Drive: Honda

 

I doubt that 6kWh battery can produce 120kW to feed the motor. Does anyone know the battery supplier/lithium variation for it?

 

A bit confused, the author...

"Perhaps the key is Honda PHEV’s efficient 2.0-liter gas engine, just big enough to rev at relatively lower RPMs to remain quiet (with little vibration)—compared to the Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid’s slightly smaller 1.8-liter engine that comes on with an unmistakable rumble. "

"Vibration" and "rumble" are different effects...

"The last thing an EV fan wants to encounter on a regular basis is the gas engine coming on and off. It’s annoying."

Hey mr Brad, any EV fan knows and accepts that this cars have an engine!

 

120 kw sounds to me like the the max output from battery and ICE together.

 

Nonsense. It is defnitely preferable not to hear the engine - even if I know it exists (btw, Brad drove a Prius for ages and now drives a Leaf).

 

The ICE in my HSD cars turns on and off all the time. I know this from watching the display.